Discussion:
Shooting tips from Experience
(too old to reply)
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-09 01:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
learned to fix them:


You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.

Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!

Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.

It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.

Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!

Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.

Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.

Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
Nicholas
2009-11-09 02:00:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
know the anatomy of your game. go for the lungs.

do *inside the wire* drills. if you don't know what that means,
forget about it.

learn to take cover. always. does damn little good to take out a
tango and end up full of holes yourself.

that is all

dismissed !

Nick
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-09 03:31:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
Once a week? I thought it was like learning how to ride a bicycle. I
do agree that you need to practice handling skills to the point that
it comes automatically.

One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
Nicholas
2009-11-09 03:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicholas
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
Once a week? I thought it was like learning how to ride a bicycle. I
do agree that you need to practice handling skills to the point that
it comes automatically.
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
If you follow military protocol it is hard to go wrong. They've spent
millions ironing out the best way to do things.

My opinion.

Nick
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:37:59 UTC
Permalink
If you follow military protocol it is hard to go wrong.  They've spent
millions ironing out the best way to do things.
Correction: they've found the cheapest way to do things that doesn't get too
many people killed. It took them 50 years with the commercial manufacturers
leading the way to come up with a fairly decent pack.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-09 04:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do?
Depends on where you are. Port arms in a hot zone. Otherwise just
sling it over your shoulder.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Still is, AFAIK.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The only problem I had was keeping the muzzle away from the helmet.
Either they were banging away back there or the rifle would sneak up
underneath and tip the helmet forward. Very annoying. Those new Nazi
helmets with the lower backs were a little better than the steel pots,
but they still had a problem with the tension rings digging into the
top of your skull..... rambling.

Anyway, if you run into action with a heavy pack on your back, the
first move you make is also the fastest: drop. Maybe that would be a
good place to start.
Gunner Asch
2009-11-09 06:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicholas
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
Once a week? I thought it was like learning how to ride a bicycle. I
do agree that you need to practice handling skills to the point that
it comes automatically.
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.

Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-09 07:28:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by Nicholas
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
Once a week? I thought it was like learning how to ride a bicycle. I
do agree that you need to practice handling skills to the point that
it comes automatically.
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
It's probably in the same archive as the video that shows someone
shooting at car windshields to demonstrate the difference between
regular bullets and those made with 'sticky teflon'.
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-09 09:06:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
<***@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
(snip)
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
Reminds me of a sore point concerning how you SAFELY carry a pistol or
rifle. Scares me to see hunters in the field (Europeans in Africa)
carrying rifles on their shoulders pointing anywhere as they turn
around. Excuse is that they never carry weapons cocked with a load
in the chamber.

I say BS! As a condition of survival you should 1) at least have the
magazine loaded; 2) possibly have a cartridge in the chamber, locked;
3) maybe have a round chambered with safety off when at the ready, 4)
maybe even have finger on the trigger with safety off if on alert, but
4) never point a pistol or rifle at anyone, even unloaded, even if
gun's put somewhere. Everyone, especially kids, should learn the
ethic of always assuming the gun is loaded.

US military is bass-ackwards about flouting the "lock and load" order,
when it's necessary to load before locking. Can't lock and then load.
Sadly, Alaska Natives casually leave loaded weapons lying around where
kids mess with them, and shooting accidents are common. bookburn
Thomas
2009-11-09 11:35:46 UTC
Permalink
A tip that has helped me...A good drink of water (16+oz) will provide
some ballast and allow better breathing control. This works
especially good if you have the jitters from one too many coffees.
Stormin Mormon
2009-11-10 13:46:35 UTC
Permalink
The rear sight adjusts in the same direction you want the
bullet to go. Shooting low? Raise the rear sight up.

A .22lr rifle will shoot holes through a brass key tag at 50
yards. Found this out to my surprise.

When finished shooting. Always check the chamber one last
time before dropping the hammer. Even if you know you worked
all the bullets out. (DAMHIKT)

When you drop the hammer to take the pressure off the firing
spring, make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction. In
case you counted wrong.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Reminds me of a sore point concerning how you SAFELY carry a pistol or
rifle.  Scares me to see hunters in the field (Europeans in Africa)
carrying rifles on their shoulders pointing anywhere as they turn
around.   Excuse is that they never carry weapons cocked with a load
in the chamber.
When I'm in the woods, I used to carry a revolver in a horizontal shoulder
rig. Fortunately, I'm a solo act, so it was never pointing at the guy
behind me. Even without that consideration, you're guaranteed to be
sweeping some body part you're fond of on the draw. It was convenient, but
I abandoned it for a vertical.
unknown
2009-11-09 14:14:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
I can: carry the rifle muzzle down on your weak side. This puts the
forestock right about where you hand would hang with your arms down.
Grab the forestock with your hand. This puts your hand palm down on
the forestock. Simply turn your hand over counter-clockwise, as you
the gun turns over and the sling will slide off your shoulder. At the
same time reach across with your dominant hand and grab the gun at the
pistol grip and bring it up to shooting position. My favorite
hunting carry by far. Keeps the mussle down so it doesn't get snagged
up in trees, muzzle direction is easy to control, although one down
side is if you stumble and fall forward the muzzle can end up in the
dirt. I just try to stay on my feet so it's not usually a problem.
You can bring your gun from a comfortable shouldered sling position up
to a shooting position in a about a half a second.
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-09 20:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Gilliland
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
I can: carry the rifle muzzle down on your weak side. This puts the
forestock right about where you hand would hang with your arms down.
Grab the forestock with your hand. This puts your hand palm down on
the forestock. Simply turn your hand over counter-clockwise, as you
the gun turns over and the sling will slide off your shoulder. At the
same time reach across with your dominant hand and grab the gun at the
pistol grip and bring it up to shooting position. My favorite
hunting carry by far. Keeps the mussle down so it doesn't get snagged
up in trees, muzzle direction is easy to control, although one down
side is if you stumble and fall forward the muzzle can end up in the
dirt. I just try to stay on my feet so it's not usually a problem.
You can bring your gun from a comfortable shouldered sling position up
to a shooting position in a about a half a second.
BTW, I heard someone say a good trick to prevent muzzle trashing is
use one of those inexpensive foam ear plugs, which you don't need to
remove before firing. Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-10 08:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs." Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
Gunner Asch
2009-11-10 09:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs." Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.

Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.

Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?

Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-10 10:00:25 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:16:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs." Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
Gunner
Do you think women have no testosterone? Several "Cat Woman"-type
central characters of novels out there now, capable of taking on "the
Green Monster." I forget which one it is that occasionally feels
hostile and deliberately goes into a sleazy bar to get drunk, then
punches out the baddest dude like she's in the Fight Club. But I'm
realist enough to assume it's men who have the upper-body strength to
go with macho mystique.
Post by Gunner Asch
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
Gunner Asch
2009-11-10 11:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Gunner Asch
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
Gunner
Do you think women have no testosterone? Several "Cat Woman"-type
central characters of novels out there now, capable of taking on "the
Green Monster." I forget which one it is that occasionally feels
hostile and deliberately goes into a sleazy bar to get drunk, then
punches out the baddest dude like she's in the Fight Club. But I'm
realist enough to assume it's men who have the upper-body strength to
go with macho mystique.
yes yes yes...But Im curious as to why you think having the proper tools
and ability to use them has something to do with "macho mystique" and
gallons of testosterone?

If someone can use a jack..and change a tire on a heavy motor
vehicle..is there also some "macho mystique" thingy going on?

Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
unknown
2009-11-10 13:37:54 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:57:26 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Gunner Asch
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
Gunner
Do you think women have no testosterone? Several "Cat Woman"-type
central characters of novels out there now, capable of taking on "the
Green Monster." I forget which one it is that occasionally feels
hostile and deliberately goes into a sleazy bar to get drunk, then
punches out the baddest dude like she's in the Fight Club. But I'm
realist enough to assume it's men who have the upper-body strength to
go with macho mystique.
yes yes yes...But Im curious as to why you think having the proper tools
and ability to use them has something to do with "macho mystique" and
gallons of testosterone?
If someone can use a jack..and change a tire on a heavy motor
vehicle..is there also some "macho mystique" thingy going on?
sounds like bookburn struck a nerve, eh Gunner? Little too much truth
at what he says? Guess that's something else we know about you now.
Post by Gunner Asch
Gunner
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-10 15:19:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:57:26 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Gunner Asch
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
Gunner
Do you think women have no testosterone? Several "Cat Woman"-type
central characters of novels out there now, capable of taking on "the
Green Monster." I forget which one it is that occasionally feels
hostile and deliberately goes into a sleazy bar to get drunk, then
punches out the baddest dude like she's in the Fight Club. But I'm
realist enough to assume it's men who have the upper-body strength to
go with macho mystique.
yes yes yes...But Im curious as to why you think having the proper tools
and ability to use them has something to do with "macho mystique" and
gallons of testosterone?
If someone can use a jack..and change a tire on a heavy motor
vehicle..is there also some "macho mystique" thingy going on?
Don't you agree that women survive by using brain-power and
femininity, rather than muscle? And it's a turn-on for men when they
do that. I'm inclined to believe that women can compete with men, but
do it in their own way. Must be men and women make a good survival
team.
Post by Gunner Asch
Gunner
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
Gunner Asch
2009-11-10 21:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:57:26 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Gunner Asch
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
Gunner
Do you think women have no testosterone? Several "Cat Woman"-type
central characters of novels out there now, capable of taking on "the
Green Monster." I forget which one it is that occasionally feels
hostile and deliberately goes into a sleazy bar to get drunk, then
punches out the baddest dude like she's in the Fight Club. But I'm
realist enough to assume it's men who have the upper-body strength to
go with macho mystique.
yes yes yes...But Im curious as to why you think having the proper tools
and ability to use them has something to do with "macho mystique" and
gallons of testosterone?
If someone can use a jack..and change a tire on a heavy motor
vehicle..is there also some "macho mystique" thingy going on?
Don't you agree that women survive by using brain-power and
femininity, rather than muscle?
Not for me. All I care about is that they get the job done.

And it's a turn-on for men when they
Post by unknown
do that. I'm inclined to believe that women can compete with men, but
do it in their own way. Must be men and women make a good survival
team.
Blink blink.....oooooookay......

Gunner
Post by unknown
Post by Gunner Asch
Gunner
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
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serial numbers, sonic boom vibrations, electromagnetic radiation from
nuclear blasts or other Acts of God are not covered; incidents owing to
aeroplane crash, ship sinking, motor vehicle accidents, leaky roof, broken
glass, falling rocks, mud
Deucalion
2009-11-10 16:34:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:16:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs." Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2". Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
Of course..her Mini-14 and spare mags simply adds to the charm.
Testosterone crowd indeed. Blink blink...did you drink a bit too much
this evening?
There you go lying again gunner.
robert bowman
2009-11-11 02:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Ill tell that to my ex-wife. All 115lbs of her at 5'2".  Well..her .45
adds a couple pounds as do her holster, 4 magazines and fighting knife.
My ex came equipped with a Mosin Nagant M44. It kept the family
conversations civil.
unknown
2009-11-10 13:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs." Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
everybody knows, guys who like big trucks and big guns are
compensating for their lack of manliness in their nether regions.
sk8r-365
2009-11-10 14:47:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
everybody knows, guys who like big trucks and big guns are
compensating for their lack of manliness in their nether regions.
I've heard that too, but it's never been proven ... that's okay, tho', I'll
just take everyone's word <wink>.

However, I've seen many a sprite woman driving a 'big ol' truck'
with a rifle hanging in the back glass. What's her short coming?
--
sk8r-365
"Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society."
- Thomas Jefferson
unknown
2009-11-10 17:36:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:47:24 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by sk8r-365
Post by unknown
everybody knows, guys who like big trucks and big guns are
compensating for their lack of manliness in their nether regions.
I've heard that too, but it's never been proven ... that's okay, tho', I'll
just take everyone's word <wink>.
However, I've seen many a sprite woman driving a 'big ol' truck'
with a rifle hanging in the back glass. What's her short coming?
she's married to a dumb fuck with a short prick.
Post by sk8r-365
--
sk8r-365
"Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society."
- Thomas Jefferson
sk8r-365
2009-11-10 20:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:47:24 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by sk8r-365
Post by unknown
everybody knows, guys who like big trucks and big guns are
compensating for their lack of manliness in their nether regions.
I've heard that too, but it's never been proven ... that's okay, tho', I'll
just take everyone's word <wink>.
However, I've seen many a sprite woman driving a 'big ol' truck'
with a rifle hanging in the back glass. What's her short coming?
she's married to a dumb fuck with a short prick.
Oh, so she's a poor a judge of character. <g>
--
sk8r-365
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government
to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
unknown
2009-11-10 22:37:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:48:30 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by sk8r-365
Post by unknown
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:47:24 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by sk8r-365
Post by unknown
everybody knows, guys who like big trucks and big guns are
compensating for their lack of manliness in their nether regions.
I've heard that too, but it's never been proven ... that's okay, tho', I'll
just take everyone's word <wink>.
However, I've seen many a sprite woman driving a 'big ol' truck'
with a rifle hanging in the back glass. What's her short coming?
she's married to a dumb fuck with a short prick.
Oh, so she's a poor a judge of character. <g>
you asked what her "short coming" was....
Post by sk8r-365
--
sk8r-365
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government
to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-10 22:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
I was wondering about the psychology of dressing your weapon up like a
penis. Marine jargon about "This is my . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun." Hemingway used to talk about riding
horseback "with guns between our legs."
He also wrote a lot about impotence, and an entire novel about a guy
that got his junk shot off. Then he blew his brains out. So I don't
put much stock in anything he said.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Nice way to positively
reinforce a macho mystique. Weapons are really toys for the
testosterone crowd. bookburn
I think Sgt. Kimberly Munley might disagree.
robert bowman
2009-11-11 02:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Marine jargon about "This is my  . . ., this is my gun; this
is for killing, this is for fun."
That little jingle only comes up in the conversation when some clueless
afterbirth of a Martian gang bang refers to his rifle as a 'gun'. The real
thing is

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master
my life.

My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must
fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to
kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I WILL...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we
fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the
hits that count. WE WILL HIT...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it
as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its
accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the
ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my
eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We
will become part of each other. WE WILL...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my
country. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!"



'
Stormin Mormon
2009-11-11 03:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Sadly, the folks at Fort Hood didn't have thier life with
them.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Marine jargon about "This is my  . . ., this is my gun;
this
is for killing, this is for fun."
That little jingle only comes up in the conversation when
some clueless
afterbirth of a Martian gang bang refers to his rifle as a
'gun'. The real
thing is

"This is my rifle.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.

My rifle, without me, is useless.
Without my rifle, I am useless.
I must fire my rifle true.
I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill
me.
I must shoot him before he shoots me.
I WILL...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war
is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst,
nor the smoke we make.
We know that it is the hits that count.
WE WILL HIT...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life.
Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its
weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories,
its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the
ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard
my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against
damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We
will become part of each other.
WE WILL...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself
are the defenders of my country. We are the masters
of our enemy.
WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no
enemy, but peace!"



'
robert bowman
2009-11-12 03:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Sadly, the folks at Fort Hood didn't have thier life with
them.
You have to consider that it might have been much, much worse with a roomful
of M41A's. That was not a situation that the average soldier is trained
for.
Thomas
2009-11-11 11:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master
my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must
fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to
kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I WILL...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we
fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the
hits that count. WE WILL HIT...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it
as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its
accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the
ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my
eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We
will become part of each other. WE WILL...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my
country. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!"
'
HAPPY VETERANS DAY.
sk8r-365
2009-11-10 14:35:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Don't tell US military about this as they like
to use condoms on muzzles.
Electrical tape. Condoms are too big and the pre-lubricated ones are rough
on the bluing.
Keeping priorities, one of them is more for to use when you get into town ;)
--
sk8r-365
"Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society."
- Thomas Jefferson
Zombywoof
2009-11-11 01:38:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Gilliland
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
I can: carry the rifle muzzle down on your weak side. This puts the
forestock right about where you hand would hang with your arms down.
Grab the forestock with your hand. This puts your hand palm down on
the forestock. Simply turn your hand over counter-clockwise, as you
the gun turns over and the sling will slide off your shoulder. At the
same time reach across with your dominant hand and grab the gun at the
pistol grip and bring it up to shooting position. My favorite
hunting carry by far. Keeps the mussle down so it doesn't get snagged
up in trees, muzzle direction is easy to control, although one down
side is if you stumble and fall forward the muzzle can end up in the
dirt. I just try to stay on my feet so it's not usually a problem.
You can bring your gun from a comfortable shouldered sling position up
to a shooting position in a about a half a second.
Also known as African Carry.
--
"Gustatus Similis Pullus"
Gunner Asch
2009-11-11 01:57:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zombywoof
Post by Frank Gilliland
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by b***@yahoo.com
One survival skill with rifles and pistols to think about is how to
carry them. Pistols get a holster located in some fashion, but how
about a rifle? Do you like a sling or just hold it in front of you
like US soldiers now do? Used to be the sling was an integral part of
getting a better position while sitting, standing or lying down.
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist." Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
bookburn
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
I can: carry the rifle muzzle down on your weak side. This puts the
forestock right about where you hand would hang with your arms down.
Grab the forestock with your hand. This puts your hand palm down on
the forestock. Simply turn your hand over counter-clockwise, as you
the gun turns over and the sling will slide off your shoulder. At the
same time reach across with your dominant hand and grab the gun at the
pistol grip and bring it up to shooting position. My favorite
hunting carry by far. Keeps the mussle down so it doesn't get snagged
up in trees, muzzle direction is easy to control, although one down
side is if you stumble and fall forward the muzzle can end up in the
dirt. I just try to stay on my feet so it's not usually a problem.
You can bring your gun from a comfortable shouldered sling position up
to a shooting position in a about a half a second.
Also known as African Carry.
Absolutely correct! I just did a quickly search and found it. It is
indeed my favorite and as they indicated..it is quite low profile and
starteling fast.

Gunner

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sk8r-365
2009-11-09 14:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
Speaking of slings; learn to use the sling to 'lock' in you rifle with
arm and body as a stable platform.


- sk8r-365
--
"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of
the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be
reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law
must protect, and to violate would be oppression." - Thomas Jefferson
Gunner Asch
2009-11-09 18:21:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:43:12 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by sk8r-365
Post by Gunner Asch
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
Speaking of slings; learn to use the sling to 'lock' in you rifle with
arm and body as a stable platform.
- sk8r-365
Very very important indeed!

Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:27:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up.  Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
I didn't see your post until after I sent mine. That's the one, simple to
do, hard to describe.
Zombywoof
2009-11-11 01:34:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
The simple way to carry a rifle is to carry it muzzle down on its sling,
rather than muzzle up. Its a very easy move to bring it up to a
shooting position..Ill see if I can find a Youtube video ..Ive been
sitting here thinking of a way to describe it..and cant do it.
Gunner
I'm a proponent of the 3-Point Tactical Sling which probably gives you
one of the most variable of all carry methods to include what is
called a "Storage Position" where you wear the Rifle like a backpack.

One video of several different carry positions is at
or


The one you pick depends on your comfort & preference. I like the
3-point break-away clip versions the best.

Although some like the two-point versions as well.


Took me a while to find what works the best for me. When hiking up
Virginia mountains the ability to use the Spector Sling in the
Backpack Storage Carry mode is very comfortable.
--
"Gustatus Similis Pullus"
sk8r-365
2009-11-16 14:59:23 UTC
Permalink
In witness thereof, Zombywoof stated:
<snip>
Post by Zombywoof
One video of several different carry positions is at
http://youtu.be/qVGbYG2_u4I or
http://youtu.be/RTvjzei-f6A
The one you pick depends on your comfort & preference. I like the
3-point break-away clip versions the best.
Although some like the two-point versions as well.
http://youtu.be/gesXIMa0vFU
<snip>

Nice post ... useful links.
Thank you,
--
sk8r-365
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or
admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."
- Thomas Jefferson
Gunner Asch
2009-11-16 15:27:31 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:59:23 -0600, sk8r-365
Post by Frank Gilliland
<snip>
Post by Zombywoof
One video of several different carry positions is at
http://youtu.be/qVGbYG2_u4I or
http://youtu.be/RTvjzei-f6A
The one you pick depends on your comfort & preference. I like the
3-point break-away clip versions the best.
Although some like the two-point versions as well.
http://youtu.be/gesXIMa0vFU
<snip>
Nice post ... useful links.
Thank you,
Btw

These guys are pretty good.



<G>

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:25:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist."  Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
Kind of hard to describe without pictures, but carry it on your weak side,
trigger up and muzzle down and forward. Bring it up and across your body
and if the sling is adjusted right, you've got a hasty.
Gunner Asch
2009-11-10 05:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Lately, I've been thinking of a good way to swing a rifle by its sling
from behind your back into your other hand just at the "wrist."  Have
to sort out how to carry a rifle along with a heavy back pack.
Kind of hard to describe without pictures, but carry it on your weak side,
trigger up and muzzle down and forward. Bring it up and across your body
and if the sling is adjusted right, you've got a hasty.
Indeed.


Oddly enough..there is nothing close to this on YouTube.

Wierd

Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
unknown
2009-11-09 14:04:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:45:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Gummer has reminded me that a lot of people obtained their shooting
education from magazines and the internet. So I thought I would post
some of what I have learned from experience. This is a few common
mistakes that I see in shooters all the time, and some of the ways I
You need to keep that rifle stable. That means everything -holding- it
must be stable. Every time you bring your gun up to your shoulder it
should point in the same place relative to your upper body. The trick
here is to find what I call your "natural aim". Stand in front of a
blank wall, bring the gun up to a stable shooting position, then mark
on the wall where the aim falls. Do this several times (with your feet
in the same place) until you have a clear pattern on the wall. That
will be your natural aim and will be the most stable. Do this in the
different positions; standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, upside-down,
whatever. If you have a buddy handy, have him push/pull then release
the muzzle while your eyes are closed; your body should spring back
without any effort on your part. Once you have found your natural aim,
move that aim by pivoting at your legs, hips, waist or whole body, NOT
your shoulders or arms! BTW, it's a good idea to find your natural aim
on a regular basis because it will change over time.
Trigger Control. Most shooters already know about this subject but the
term is kind of a misnomer: what you need is 'trigger FINGER control'.
If you can't squeeze the trigger without losing sight alignment then
you don't have finger control. The common mistake is to go with a
lighter trigger but that's often just a kludge. You need to train your
trigger finger to be relaxed while the rest of your hand is clenched
around the grip. And to pull the trigger straight back instead of the
natural motion to pull it to one side or the other. AND to move that
finger without contracting any muscle in your hand that will change
the pressure on the stock. Test your finger control by watching your
sight alignment while pulling the trigger -harder- than it takes to
release the hammer. If it moves off-target then you need more control.
I hinge my finger at the middle knuckle and it works great; YMMV. And
BTW, a lighter trigger is good for accuracy -ONLY- if you already have
good finger control!
Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitute. Even if you do
everything the wrong way or are genetically predisposed to shooting
bad, practice will only lead to improvement. Of course it's better to
practice doing things the -right- way, but un-learning bad habits can
be harder than learning new ones, so practice whatever works. The
point is to commit everything to muscle-memory, then practice on a
regular basis so your muscles don't forget.
It happens with everybody: your game steps into your field of view,
your adrenalin starts pumping, everything you learned and practiced
rushes into your head all at once and you ultimately miss the shot. I
call that "over-focus". Learn to clear your mind of all distractions,
even when the source of distraction happens to be your full attention.
My method is to count. A steady "one.... two.... three.... four....
five.... six.... " for however long it takes. But use whatever method
works for you. Sing a song, poke yourself with a stick, go visit your
'happy place'.... whatever. It distracts your mind and let's your
muscle-memory do what you trained it to do without micro-management
from your brain. You can practice this every night since the same
method is often recommended to help get to sleep when the mind is
hyperactive. Well, maybe not poking yourself with a stick, but you get
the idea.
Practice shooting live game by shooting at a 55-gal drum bounding down
a hill (you'll need friends, barbecue & beer). This exercise will turn
most paper-target shooters into blubbering idiots. The first -several-
times I tried this I couldn't hit shit. Got a lucky shot once in a
while but that's it. Then I put the rifle down, sat back, watched the
drum as it went down the hill and had an epiphany (which I won't tell
anyone because you really have to experience it yourself). I rarely
miss a shot anymore. I've taken a few friends out to 'shoot the drum'
and the same thing happens -- it's fun to watch their reaction when
they reach the epiphany stage!
Another common mistake is inability to judge distances. Shooting at
the range is -WAY- different than shooting in the woods or even a
field, and what looks like 100 yards at the former might set you too
high or too low in the latter. Lighting can screw you up, too. The
best thing I learned is to take walks in different places, stop once
in a while, spot a 'target', estimate the distance, then pace it off
and find out how bad you missed. I've found that this takes constant
practice because my eyes are getting worse as I get older. At least
once a week for me.
Those foam-rubber ear plugs make great muzzle plugs. Don't worry about
pulling them out, you can shoot right through them and they won't hurt
accuracy one bit. But they might have an effect with a really small
bore, I don't know because I never tried them with anything smaller
than a 6.5mm.
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
you forgot the most important part: breath control. Good breathing
is absolutely critical to highly accurate shooting.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-09 21:37:42 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:04:06 GMT, hal wrote in
<***@news.newsguy.com>:

<snip>
Post by unknown
you forgot the most important part: breath control. Good breathing
is absolutely critical to highly accurate shooting.
You're right, I did forget. Thank you.

I tried your sling thing with a couple different rifles. The geometry
is good but I ran into a few problems mostly with the sling. What kind
of sling are you using?
unknown
2009-11-09 21:57:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:37:42 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:04:06 GMT, hal wrote in
<snip>
Post by unknown
you forgot the most important part: breath control. Good breathing
is absolutely critical to highly accurate shooting.
You're right, I did forget. Thank you.
I tried your sling thing with a couple different rifles. The geometry
is good but I ran into a few problems mostly with the sling. What kind
of sling are you using?
I have a leather sling on my hunting rifle. Something stiff works
better. Lift up a little on the gun at you turn it over to remove
some of the friction on your sling against your shoulder.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-10 02:09:22 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:57:09 GMT, hal wrote in
Post by unknown
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:37:42 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:04:06 GMT, hal wrote in
<snip>
Post by unknown
you forgot the most important part: breath control. Good breathing
is absolutely critical to highly accurate shooting.
You're right, I did forget. Thank you.
I tried your sling thing with a couple different rifles. The geometry
is good but I ran into a few problems mostly with the sling. What kind
of sling are you using?
I have a leather sling on my hunting rifle. Something stiff works
better. Lift up a little on the gun at you turn it over to remove
some of the friction on your sling against your shoulder.
I think I get the idea. I put a stiff leather sling on my Norinco
which has a fixed sling loop but it still didn't work too well. Worked
a little better if I grabbed the sling with the foregrip. Either way
it was far from reliable because there were too many variables. You
need the right sling, the right sling stud/loop, the right jacket, and
the hope that you aren't in any brush that could hang up the sling.
Aside from that, even the best attempt wasn't any faster than simply
unslinging from my shooting arm.

I gave it an honest try. There might be a knack but I couldn't figure
it out. My tentative conclusion is that the long gun is simply not a
quick-draw weapon.

Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour. Unless it's slung
from the side of the buttstock like an old M1 carbine, I think I'll
keep the muzzle up. Or use my scabbard.
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Gilliland
Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour.
The rifle isn't vertical, it's at about a 45 degree angle. Your hand is on
the forestock to stabilize and steer it if you're in thick cover.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-10 05:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour.
The rifle isn't vertical, it's at about a 45 degree angle.
I noticed.
Post by robert bowman
Your hand is on
the forestock to stabilize and steer it if you're in thick cover.
Then what's keeping the sling on your shoulder? Hopefully nothing that
will prevent it from slipping off easily when you need that quick-draw
action.

Actually, it seems kind of redundant to sling it over your shoulder
when your arm is going to be busy doing most of the work anyway. And
that's what I see happening while humping through the woods with a
rifle slung loose like that. If you're going to have the thing
sticking out front and rear then you might as well just carry it like
a limey with a double-barrel shotgun.

Sorry, maybe I just don't get it.
unknown
2009-11-10 13:24:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:49:09 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour.
The rifle isn't vertical, it's at about a 45 degree angle.
I noticed.
Post by robert bowman
Your hand is on
the forestock to stabilize and steer it if you're in thick cover.
Then what's keeping the sling on your shoulder? Hopefully nothing that
will prevent it from slipping off easily when you need that quick-draw
action.
Actually, it seems kind of redundant to sling it over your shoulder
when your arm is going to be busy doing most of the work anyway. And
that's what I see happening while humping through the woods with a
rifle slung loose like that. If you're going to have the thing
sticking out front and rear then you might as well just carry it like
a limey with a double-barrel shotgun.
Sorry, maybe I just don't get it.
Different strokes for different folks. You can also lock your thumb
under the sling up by your shoulder and hold the sling on your
shoulder just like you do for a right side carry. Slings tend to slip
off anyway if you're not careful. Slings are more for shooting
stabilization imho but double as a transport aid. The sling is
typically just to transfer the weight of the gun to your shoulder
temporarily to save fatigue on your arms or if you need to free up
your hands for whatever. I've just found that with a little practice
you can flip the gun over and bring it up from the left side muzzle
down carry much quicker than from my right side. Maybe that's just me
though. If you're really hunting anyway it should be in your hands in
front of you.
Deucalion
2009-11-10 16:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:49:09 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour.
The rifle isn't vertical, it's at about a 45 degree angle.
I noticed.
Post by robert bowman
Your hand is on
the forestock to stabilize and steer it if you're in thick cover.
Then what's keeping the sling on your shoulder? Hopefully nothing that
will prevent it from slipping off easily when you need that quick-draw
action.
Actually, it seems kind of redundant to sling it over your shoulder
when your arm is going to be busy doing most of the work anyway. And
that's what I see happening while humping through the woods with a
rifle slung loose like that. If you're going to have the thing
sticking out front and rear then you might as well just carry it like
a limey with a double-barrel shotgun.
Sorry, maybe I just don't get it.
Different strokes for different folks. You can also lock your thumb
under the sling up by your shoulder and hold the sling on your
shoulder just like you do for a right side carry. Slings tend to slip
off anyway if you're not careful. Slings are more for shooting
stabilization imho but double as a transport aid. The sling is
typically just to transfer the weight of the gun to your shoulder
temporarily to save fatigue on your arms or if you need to free up
your hands for whatever. I've just found that with a little practice
you can flip the gun over and bring it up from the left side muzzle
down carry much quicker than from my right side. Maybe that's just me
though. If you're really hunting anyway it should be in your hands in
front of you.
Finally someone who knows something about hunting. Walking around the
woods with your rifle/shotgun slung over your shoulder is not hunting.
It's walking around. For those who don't believe it, go to the skeet
range, shoulder your weapon using a sling and yell pull. As you watch
the skeet fly off and out of range, remember that you knew exactly
when that was going to happen and had an advantage over walking up on
wild game.

There are some tactical slings out there that use a harness/sling type
arrangement and are very good. However, one doesn't put that type of
sling on their shoulder and the firearm is carried at a port arms or a
low ready position.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-10 22:36:30 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:24:08 GMT, hal wrote in
Post by unknown
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:49:09 -0800, Frank Gilliland
Post by Frank Gilliland
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Regardless, I learned that I don't want to carry a rifle that way. It
flopped around way too much, the muzzle kept hitting my leg when I
walked, couldn't keep it behind me, and the buttstock felt like a
knife in the back of my shoulder after half an hour.
The rifle isn't vertical, it's at about a 45 degree angle.
I noticed.
Post by robert bowman
Your hand is on
the forestock to stabilize and steer it if you're in thick cover.
Then what's keeping the sling on your shoulder? Hopefully nothing that
will prevent it from slipping off easily when you need that quick-draw
action.
Actually, it seems kind of redundant to sling it over your shoulder
when your arm is going to be busy doing most of the work anyway. And
that's what I see happening while humping through the woods with a
rifle slung loose like that. If you're going to have the thing
sticking out front and rear then you might as well just carry it like
a limey with a double-barrel shotgun.
Sorry, maybe I just don't get it.
Different strokes for different folks. You can also lock your thumb
under the sling up by your shoulder and hold the sling on your
shoulder just like you do for a right side carry. Slings tend to slip
off anyway if you're not careful. Slings are more for shooting
stabilization imho but double as a transport aid. The sling is
typically just to transfer the weight of the gun to your shoulder
temporarily to save fatigue on your arms or if you need to free up
your hands for whatever. I've just found that with a little practice
you can flip the gun over and bring it up from the left side muzzle
down carry much quicker than from my right side. Maybe that's just me
though.
I get the feeling that this is one of those things that works for some
people but not others. Might have something to do with flexibility or
body structure or whatever. But it simply doesn't work for me.
Post by unknown
If you're really hunting anyway it should be in your hands in
front of you.
Now -THAT- I can agree with 100%.
robert bowman
2009-11-10 04:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Gilliland
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
For handgunners, a Texas Star is a good way to learn humility. It might be
fun with a .22 rifle, too. An 870 is cheating.

As for practice, target acquisition and trigger control on a $50 Crosman
1377 works just like it does on anything else, and it's a lot cheaper and
handier. I didn't have any problem finding .177 pellets during the Great
Ammo Shortage. Recoil control is something else; that's what the range is
for.
Gunner Asch
2009-11-10 05:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
For handgunners, a Texas Star is a good way to learn humility. It might be
fun with a .22 rifle, too. An 870 is cheating.
As for practice, target acquisition and trigger control on a $50 Crosman
1377 works just like it does on anything else, and it's a lot cheaper and
handier. I didn't have any problem finding .177 pellets during the Great
Ammo Shortage. Recoil control is something else; that's what the range is
for.
Very true indeed.


Gunner, who keeps a potting target out in the back 40, and a variety of
pump pellet rifles on the wall of the shop for practice and relaxation.
"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."
Thomas
2009-11-10 12:02:16 UTC
Permalink
One more...Snap caps.

Have a friend stagger one or two between live loads. When you pull the
trigger on a snap cap you will see exactly where and why you flinch.
If there is zero flinch, give them to your buddy.
b***@yahoo.com
2009-11-10 15:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas
One more...Snap caps.
Have a friend stagger one or two between live loads. When you pull the
trigger on a snap cap you will see exactly where and why you flinch.
If there is zero flinch, give them to your buddy.
I see that the manufacturer's directions that came with my new rifle
say that it's okay to practice dry-firing. No harm to firing pin,
etc., and good practice.
Frank Gilliland
2009-11-10 22:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Thomas
One more...Snap caps.
Have a friend stagger one or two between live loads. When you pull the
trigger on a snap cap you will see exactly where and why you flinch.
If there is zero flinch, give them to your buddy.
I see that the manufacturer's directions that came with my new rifle
say that it's okay to practice dry-firing. No harm to firing pin,
etc., and good practice.
I always remove the firing pin when dry-firing regardless of what the
manufacturer says. I've been that way ever since the first time I
heard the heart-dropping sound of the tip of a firing pin bounce
against the wall and across the floor. Then $30 to the gunsmith for a
new pin, and a couple hours to make it fit my rifle (the firing pins
for the old Remington Model 8 aren't drop-in replacements). Ever since
then I've been paranoid about dry-firing -- better safe than sorry!
Zombywoof
2009-11-11 01:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Thomas
One more...Snap caps.
Have a friend stagger one or two between live loads. When you pull the
trigger on a snap cap you will see exactly where and why you flinch.
If there is zero flinch, give them to your buddy.
I see that the manufacturer's directions that came with my new rifle
say that it's okay to practice dry-firing. No harm to firing pin,
etc., and good practice.
They say it, but I don't believe it. Even on those weapons where it
is OK to do so, doing so can become a bad habit. Much better to use
snap caps for dry firing & trigger control practice.
--
"Gustatus Similis Pullus"
robert bowman
2009-11-11 02:32:22 UTC
Permalink
They say it, but I don't believe it.  Even on those weapons where it
is OK to do so, doing so can become a bad habit.  Much better to use
snap caps for dry firing & trigger control practice.
They're good for practicing clearing malfunctions, too. It's embarrassing
standing there with a double feed saying "Duh, whadda I do now?"
Deucalion
2009-11-18 00:56:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:08:48 -0800, Gunner Asch
Post by Gunner Asch
Post by robert bowman
Post by Frank Gilliland
Anybody else got any tips? Might as well make this a party.
For handgunners, a Texas Star is a good way to learn humility. It might be
fun with a .22 rifle, too. An 870 is cheating.
As for practice, target acquisition and trigger control on a $50 Crosman
1377 works just like it does on anything else, and it's a lot cheaper and
handier. I didn't have any problem finding .177 pellets during the Great
Ammo Shortage. Recoil control is something else; that's what the range is
for.
Very true indeed.
Gunner, who keeps a potting target out in the back 40, and a variety of
pump pellet rifles on the wall of the shop for practice and relaxation.
In one thread you say one has to carry what they will be shooting and
in another thread you say that practicing with an air rifle is good
practice.
robert bowman
2009-11-18 03:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deucalion
In one thread you say one has to carry what they will be shooting and
in another thread you say that practicing with an air rifle is good
practice.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little
statesman and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has
simply nothing to do."

"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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