Discussion:
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
(too old to reply)
raykeller
2014-06-08 16:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation

The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over the
last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple. Handgun
and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long rifle
ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months. People would line up
to buy ammunition at prices two and three times the level that they were
just two years ago.

All of that is about to change. Ammunition supply looks as though it is
ready to catch up with demand. Centerfire pistol and rifle cartridges are
available on most store shelves. When I walked into a local Wal-Mart this
morning, their were over 30 signs on the ammunition case indicating a
rollback of prices by 10-15%.

In classic economic fashion, the bubble was fueled by actions of the Federal
government. Many federal agencies bought enormous quantities of
ammunition. While the quantities were only a small percentage of total
production, the raw figures fueled conspiracy theories. Obama
administration actions fueled fear of coming shortages, gun bans,
registration of ammunition sales, even potential low level warfare. All of
this led to the current bubble of ammunition sales.

In response, the economy reacted the way that free markets are supposed to
work. Ammunition suppliers started running their manufacturing plants day
and night, adding additional shifts. Importers scoured the world markets,
trying to buy everything they could to satisfy the insatiable demand.
Foreign manufacturers bumped up their production to try to fill the desire
for more and more ammunition. Ammunition production was at the highest
level ever for small arms, short of war.

But unlike during war, this ammunition was not being fired in combat. Most
of it was not being fired at all. It was being stored against future need.
Very little was actually being used.

There are limits to this sort of demand. I gave away a couple of thousand
.22 rounds to make a point. A person who only had 37 .22 shells out of a
box of 50 is well justified in wanting a thousand or two, or a case of 5,000
"just because". Once they have the 5,000, their desire for more becomes
less. Then demand drops, likely below pre-bubble levels for a while.

In the meantime, manufactures cannot stop production instantly. They have
orders in the pipeline. They have supplies coming in that they have no
storage space for. They have employees that they have trained and who they
do not want to lay off. For all these reasons, demand drops suddenly, but
supply cannot drop as quickly. As supply took a while to spin up, it will
take a while to spin down.

This means that retailers and wholesalers will be saddled with a glut of
merchandise that they cannot sell at the current high prices. They will
have to put it on sale. Lower prices bring about the expectation that
prices will fall even further. The prices crash.

That is when a prudent person buys what they want, at very good prices.
Demand will not stay at the artificially low prices of the crash. The new
crop of urban, hip, shooters will want to feed their equipment, and the new
demand will be higher than it was before the bubble, but it will take a
while to settle out.

Metal prices have already fallen from the highs of the bubble. Copper and
lead are far lower than they were. You will know that the bubble is close
to the bottom when you see .22 LR on sale for below 4 cents per round. At
the lowest, we might see .22 cartridges below $10 for 500.
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-08 17:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by raykeller
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over the
last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple. Handgun
and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long rifle
ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months.
They had a limit on .22 ammunition, it was being rationed at a Wal-Mart
I walked into.
RogerN
2014-06-08 18:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by raykeller
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over
the last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple.
Handgun and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long
rifle ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months. People would
line up to buy ammunition at prices two and three times the level that they
were just two years ago.
<snip>

Our local Wal-Mart has had guns since it's opening, not many, a few
shotguns, a couple bolt action rifles, maybe 2-3 22LR's. Some 5-7 years ago
they got rid of their guns.

Just a couple of weeks ago they started selling guns again, now they have
4-5 AR-15's, a shotgun or two that looks like an AR, 22LR's that look like
an AR, plus more shotguns and rifles than they ever had before!

Bottom line - progressives don't like guns but they take action that causes
the opposite of what their goal is. And no matter how many times they see
their ideas aren't working, they keep repeating the same mistakes over and
over and over, thinking it's going to work this time. Isn't that called
insanity? Now, thanks to progressives, we have guns in hands of more people
that wouldn't have the guns if it wasn't for the progressives.

The reason Adam Lanza's mom bought the guns was most likely because of the
progressives, Obama has been the top gun salesman since elected. We know
the school rules, no guns except for criminals, was from the progressives.
So, when the progressives ideas didn't work, and Adam Lanza brought a gun,
disobeying the progressives "NO GUNS" sign, who'd the idiots blame? The
NRA, the ones that told them criminals wouldn't obey their stupid sign. The
"NO GUN" signs just tell criminals they are safe killing people at that
location.

Why are progressives such simpletons? Obama comes up with Obamacare and
exempts employers for part time workers. How is it they don't see that
employers are going to replace some full time positions with part time
positions? The progressives aren't playing chess, they aren't even playing
checkers, doesn't even look like they are thinking far enough ahead to be
competitive at tic-tac-toe. And that's the kind they vote for to take away
their freedom and rule over them!

RogerN
RD Sandman
2014-06-08 19:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Post by raykeller
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust.
Over the last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or
triple. Handgun and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times.
.22 long rifle ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months.
People would line up to buy ammunition at prices two and three times
the level that they were just two years ago.
<snip>
Our local Wal-Mart has had guns since it's opening, not many, a few
shotguns, a couple bolt action rifles, maybe 2-3 22LR's. Some 5-7
years ago they got rid of their guns.
Just a couple of weeks ago they started selling guns again, now they
have 4-5 AR-15's, a shotgun or two that looks like an AR, 22LR's that
look like an AR, plus more shotguns and rifles than they ever had
before!
Good.
Post by RogerN
Bottom line - progressives don't like guns but they take action that
causes the opposite of what their goal is. And no matter how many
times they see their ideas aren't working, they keep repeating the
same mistakes over and over and over, thinking it's going to work this
time. Isn't that called insanity? Now, thanks to progressives, we
have guns in hands of more people that wouldn't have the guns if it
wasn't for the progressives.
The reason Adam Lanza's mom bought the guns was most likely because of
the progressives,
His mom bought guns and took Adam to target practice in an effort to
connect with him. He was suffering from Asperger's Syndrome which is a
form of autism.

Obama has been the top gun salesman since elected.
Post by RogerN
We know the school rules, no guns except for criminals, was from the
progressives. So, when the progressives ideas didn't work, and Adam
Lanza brought a gun,
Adam Lanza didn't buy any of those guns. His mother did.

disobeying the progressives "NO GUNS" sign, who'd
Post by RogerN
the idiots blame? The NRA, the ones that told them criminals wouldn't
obey their stupid sign. The "NO GUN" signs just tell criminals they
are safe killing people at that location.
Pretty much but it is within a property owners right to decide whether or
not guns will be allowed. That works for both private property and
public (government) property. One difference is that with private
property there will usually be some other entity that performs the same
service or sells the same product and doesn't post the property so one
has the choice to go there and conduct business. With government
property that is not usually the case.
Post by RogerN
Why are progressives such simpletons? Obama comes up with Obamacare
and exempts employers for part time workers. How is it they don't see
that employers are going to replace some full time positions with part
time positions? The progressives aren't playing chess, they aren't
even playing checkers, doesn't even look like they are thinking far
enough ahead to be competitive at tic-tac-toe. And that's the kind
they vote for to take away their freedom and rule over them!
RogerN
--
Sleep well tonight.......

RD (The Sandman}

One bullet in the possession of a criminal is too many.....
Ten bullets in the possession of a mother trying to protect
her children....may not be enough.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
Winston_Smith
2014-06-08 19:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by raykeller
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over the
last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple. Handgun
and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long rifle
ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months. People would line up
to buy ammunition at prices two and three times the level that they were
just two years ago.
All of that is about to change. Ammunition supply looks as though it is
ready to catch up with demand. Centerfire pistol and rifle cartridges are
available on most store shelves. When I walked into a local Wal-Mart this
morning, their were over 30 signs on the ammunition case indicating a
rollback of prices by 10-15%.
The Cabela's in Phoenix has a good supply of everything. Prices are in
line with pre-bubble. The only quantity restriction still in place is
on .22LR.
rbowman
2014-06-08 21:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
The Cabela's in Phoenix has a good supply of everything. Prices are in
line with pre-bubble. The only quantity restriction still in place is
on .22LR.
Cabela's is opening here next week. It will be interesting to see what they
have. The local stores have some ammunition, but very little .22LR. I'll be
happy to see CCI Blazers stacked on pallets at $20 for a 525 round pack.

Obama is the gift that goes on giving. The was a brief spasm in 2008 but
it's been almost 2 years since his 2012 stimulus.

I'm not into ARs but I understand they're available at close to pre-bubble
prices.
Frank
2014-06-09 00:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Winston_Smith
The Cabela's in Phoenix has a good supply of everything. Prices are in
line with pre-bubble. The only quantity restriction still in place is
on .22LR.
Cabela's is opening here next week. It will be interesting to see what they
have. The local stores have some ammunition, but very little .22LR. I'll be
happy to see CCI Blazers stacked on pallets at $20 for a 525 round pack.
Obama is the gift that goes on giving. The was a brief spasm in 2008 but
it's been almost 2 years since his 2012 stimulus.
I'm not into ARs but I understand they're available at close to pre-bubble
prices.
New Cabela's opened here in Delaware last May 1st.
I got there the day before as a Cabela's credit card holder but store
was crowded and they were letting anyone in without the invitation or
showing their card.
They had advertised 22's but shelves were empty when I got there in the
afternoon.
Also highly disappointed that they had very little gun powder and none
that I wanted.
rbowman
2014-06-09 03:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank
New Cabela's opened here in Delaware last May 1st.
I got there the day before as a Cabela's credit card holder but store
was crowded and they were letting anyone in without the invitation or
showing their card.
Yeah, I got a letter containing a credit card application that said I could
get in the day before the grand opening if I filled it out and presented it.
I've got enough credit cards and I'm not fond of charlie foxtrots featuring
casts of thousands, so I'll wait for the dust to die down. Cabela's is handy
but I never noticed any spectacular prices. I'd as soon give my business to
the locally owned and operated store.

Then there's Cabela's plans to buy up ranchland and turn it into Texas style
hunt clubs. Screw that.
Frank
2014-06-09 11:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Frank
New Cabela's opened here in Delaware last May 1st.
I got there the day before as a Cabela's credit card holder but store
was crowded and they were letting anyone in without the invitation or
showing their card.
Yeah, I got a letter containing a credit card application that said I could
get in the day before the grand opening if I filled it out and presented it.
I've got enough credit cards and I'm not fond of charlie foxtrots featuring
casts of thousands, so I'll wait for the dust to die down. Cabela's is handy
but I never noticed any spectacular prices. I'd as soon give my business to
the locally owned and operated store.
Then there's Cabela's plans to buy up ranchland and turn it into Texas style
hunt clubs. Screw that.
I use the card for everything and had accumulated $80 credit.
When I went to the opening I had a left over $100 gift certificate from
Christmas and a $25 coupon for $25 off a $200 purchase, so I was
prepared to get $200 worth of stuff for nothing. I did but not what I
wanted.

Then over a month later, I see they are selling the boots that I bought
for $30 off. Thought about calling them and they might give me the $30
back but if they examined the total transaction it might only be $5 so I
figured screw it.

I'll continue to use the card and they have sent me a couple of 5 and
10 year anniversary gifts, a small multitool and a folding knife as a
long term customer, but will probably only go to the store for freebies
or sales items.
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
2014-06-08 21:45:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 09:43:58 -0700, "raykeller"
Post by raykeller
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over the
last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple. Handgun
and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long rifle
ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months. People would line up
to buy ammunition at prices two and three times the level that they were
just two years ago.
All of that is about to change. Ammunition supply looks as though it is
ready to catch up with demand. Centerfire pistol and rifle cartridges are
available on most store shelves. When I walked into a local Wal-Mart this
morning, their were over 30 signs on the ammunition case indicating a
rollback of prices by 10-15%.
In classic economic fashion, the bubble was fueled by actions of the Federal
government. Many federal agencies bought enormous quantities of
ammunition.
Bullshit. The feds DID NOT "BUY" enormous quantities of ammo. The
feds CONTRACTED TO PURCHASE AMMO OVER SEVERAL YEARS. When you look at
the quantities and the number of years over which those quantities
were spread, it was no big deal.

HOWEVER -- the NRA and their loony followers shrieked and ranted about
Obama plotting a takeover or some such bullshit, thereby frightening
the knuckle draggers who rushed out to buy ammo, thereby creating a
shortage . . . the fed purchases had nothing to do with it.

But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-08 21:55:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!

"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?

Lloyd
Klaus Schadenfreude
2014-06-08 21:59:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 16:55:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
That's why my new book, "How To Plant Tofu," is selling like hot cakes
at all the community collectives, head shops, and Occupy protests
across the country.


"Based on the stupid shit you post and your apalling [sic] lack of
education I'm sure your kids are dummer [sic] than sheep."
-Professor Deep Dudu
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
2014-06-08 22:28:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 16:55:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
Lloyd
Rave on, boy, rave on.

Your nonsense reminds me of a neighbor of mine back in 1999 as Y2K was
approaching - - - stocking up on canned and dried food, telling me I
was foolish to not do the same . . . mocking me, telling me he'd let
me have a can of soup for $50 after Y2K.
F. George McDuffee
2014-06-08 22:36:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:28:11 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin'
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 16:55:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
Lloyd
Rave on, boy, rave on.
Your nonsense reminds me of a neighbor of mine back in 1999 as Y2K was
approaching - - - stocking up on canned and dried food, telling me I
was foolish to not do the same . . . mocking me, telling me he'd let
me have a can of soup for $50 after Y2K.
==================

Hope for the best -- plan for the worst;
That way you'll never be disappointed...

The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time. Now if
we could just do the same with electricity...
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-08 22:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".

Lloyd
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-08 22:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".
Lloyd
I now can and save food.... Am I "Mormonized"?
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".
Lloyd
I now can and save food.... Am I "Mormonized"?
I'd like to say yes, but food storage is only
one small part of the Mormon picture. It's a good
start.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-09 15:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".
Lloyd
I now can and save food.... Am I "Mormonized"?
I'd like to say yes, but food storage is only
one small part of the Mormon picture. It's a good
start.
When I was young as a kid I figured I could travel and stay mobile by
owning nothing of value and that was a better use of my youth and
strengths than to hunker down and dig a hole to live in... so I stored
nothing and more or less lived off the land or actually I just owned
little and rented most things or plucked them from a garage sale or a
trash pile in front of other peoples houses. I got some descent
furniture and bicycles by trash picking and dumpster diving.

Today I'm old and can't run 26 miles or carry 80 pounds on my back for
an all day walk. I'm someone that now has to dig in and protect what I
have. No point in roaming the countryside after a disaster since that
would be as bad as staying put.

So now (actually since my kids were born) I've been canning learning to
preserve food and keeping food and supplies and I plan to stay in one
place through almost any disaster. I waste very little food because I
tend to rotate it and preserve it.

Play to your strength is what I believed, that may or may NOT line up
with Mormon tenets.
Jim Wilkins
2014-06-09 15:59:04 UTC
Permalink
"BeamMeUpScotty"
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Today I'm old and can't run 26 miles or carry 80 pounds on my back for
an all day walk. I'm someone that now has to dig in and protect what I
have. No point in roaming the countryside after a disaster since that
would be as bad as staying put.
I found that my remote wilderness limit in summertime was about the
week it took for the scratches on my legs to become infected and the
food I could carry to run low. Canoeing was no better because the
brush is thicker along the water and I had to portage the heavy canoe
as well as my gear. I'll run rapids in a group but not alone.

I could stay out quite a bit longer in cold weather when fresh food
keeps better.

-jsw
Gunner Asch
2014-06-08 23:45:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 17:43:52 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".
Lloyd
Actually..many if not most still do it.

And a lot of us non Mormons have been doing it for years.


"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-09 00:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.

Lloyd
raykeller
2014-06-09 01:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.
Lloyd
Those are some piss poor farmers or lds either one not to garden and can
Gunner Asch
2014-06-09 01:44:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:03:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.
Lloyd
I live in an area with a fair amount of Mormons and they do. Shrug

Last year I snagged a 5x10 cargo trailer filled with $10 cans from 2
clients, brothers who were updating their stockpiles. Most of the
stuff had been canned in 2001-2005. So far..nothing has been found
spoiled or bad.

I went out into my cargo container last Saturday to get another can of
Sugar/White/Granulated and found out my roommates have consumed at
least 60 lbs of sugar since I brought the stock home. Im not..not a
happy camper about that.

Gunner

"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.
Lloyd
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply? It is totally possible
that what you say is more true than we wish to
believe.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-09 12:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply?
Stormy, except for their huge gaggles of children and nearly annual trips
to 'the temple', they're absolutely indiscernable from the gentile
farmers.

In general, I'd say they take less good care of their physical (farm)
equipment, although they seem to take a lot of pride in their horses.

They do not put up stores. Not around here, anyway, and we have a
community of nearly a thousand LDS members within a seven mile radius of
here.

Lloyd
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-10 11:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Stormin Mormon
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply?
Stormy, except for their huge gaggles of children and nearly annual trips
to 'the temple', they're absolutely indiscernable from the gentile
farmers.
In general, I'd say they take less good care of their physical (farm)
equipment, although they seem to take a lot of pride in their horses.
They do not put up stores. Not around here, anyway, and we have a
community of nearly a thousand LDS members within a seven mile radius of
here.
Lloyd
I'm sad to read that. What a shame that people
attend church, but don't keep the commandments.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Just Wondering
2014-06-10 15:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Stormin Mormon
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply?
Stormy, except for their huge gaggles of children and nearly annual trips
to 'the temple', they're absolutely indiscernable from the gentile
farmers.
In general, I'd say they take less good care of their physical (farm)
equipment, although they seem to take a lot of pride in their horses.
They do not put up stores. Not around here, anyway, and we have a
community of nearly a thousand LDS members within a seven mile radius of
here.
Lloyd
I'm sad to read that. What a shame that people
attend church, but don't keep the commandments.
It was advice, not a commandment.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-10 16:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
It was advice, not a commandment.
Indeed! Only the Almighty has the authority to issue "commandments".
Joseph Smith was only a person, and so are the elders who succeeded him.

Lloyd
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-11 12:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Just Wondering
It was advice, not a commandment.
Indeed! Only the Almighty has the authority to issue "commandments".
Joseph Smith was only a person, and so are the elders who succeeded him.
Lloyd
IIRC, one of the leaders said that the year
food storage might be as important in our day
as the commandment to board Noah's ark in his
day.

I like to think that the Almight has issued
directions through JS and the later prophets.

Moses, Noah, Abraham... "only a person" also.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-11 12:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Moses, Noah, Abraham... "only a person" also.
Unless you read a different book than I (no, not The Book of Mormon),
that's non-sequitor.

Moses didn't issue any commandments -- he only +delivered+ them.

Joseph Smith? The apostle Paul warned of him and his ilk, instructing us
to stay as far from them as possible.

The subject of "false prophets" somehow always gets glossed over in
conversations with my LDS neighbors. <G>

LLoyd
rbowman
2014-06-11 14:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Joseph Smith? The apostle Paul warned of him and his ilk, instructing us
to stay as far from them as possible.
The Gods know Saul was an expert on the subject of climbing on a religious
bandwagon and driving it off in his own direction. He didn't want any
competition.
David R. Birch
2014-06-11 18:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Stormin Mormon
Moses, Noah, Abraham... "only a person" also.
Unless you read a different book than I (no, not The Book of Mormon),
that's non-sequitor.
Moses didn't issue any commandments -- he only +delivered+ them.
Joseph Smith? The apostle Paul warned of him and his ilk, instructing us
to stay as far from them as possible.
The subject of "false prophets" somehow always gets glossed over in
conversations with my LDS neighbors. <G>
LLoyd
I suspect Paul was talking about "false prophets" other than himself.

OTOH, I consider "false prophet" to be redundant.

David
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-12 11:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Moses didn't issue any commandments -- he only +delivered+ them.
Joseph Smith? The apostle Paul warned of him and his ilk, instructing us
to stay as far from them as possible.
The subject of "false prophets" somehow always gets glossed over in
conversations with my LDS neighbors. <G>
LLoyd
I hope you're aware that the LDS church instructs all
members and all investigators to pray to God the Father
in the name of Jesus the Son, to know the truth of the
message? Both members and investigators are taught to
pray for the confirmation of the Spirit. This prayer
to know the truth is taught in church wide lessons, and
also part of the message the full time missionaries teach.
I doubt a church led by false prophets would teach that.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
F. George McDuffee
2014-06-10 22:40:41 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:56:06 -0600, Just Wondering
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Stormin Mormon
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply?
Stormy, except for their huge gaggles of children and nearly annual trips
to 'the temple', they're absolutely indiscernable from the gentile
farmers.
In general, I'd say they take less good care of their physical (farm)
equipment, although they seem to take a lot of pride in their horses.
They do not put up stores. Not around here, anyway, and we have a
community of nearly a thousand LDS members within a seven mile radius of
here.
Lloyd
I'm sad to read that. What a shame that people
attend church, but don't keep the commandments.
It was advice, not a commandment.
Indeed! That good advise, and versions of it such as "always
spend *LESS* than you earn," have been displaced by the much
more effective/pervasive media indoctrination/propaganda of
a totally unrealistic life style [on credit] and catch
phrases such as "don't leave home without it." [AMEX]

We are in the midst of a 21st century [sociopolitical not
theological] "cargo cult," and many of our less
educated/knowledgable inner city residents think that credit
cards are "magic" and don't know these must be [re]paid.
Naturally they resent those lucky enough to possess one of
these "magic" talisman. [don't have cites handy]

A few cites for Cargo Cult
http://guutex.com/archives/146
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/05/cargo-cults-john-frum-america/
http://brodzinski.com/2014/05/fool-with-tool-still-fool.html

Thought for the day: Unless you are a hunter/geatherer,
every good and service you consume was produced by someone,
some where. some how, some time. There is no Cornucopia or
"Horn of Plenty."
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cornucopia.htm#didyouknowout
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
Michael A. Terrell
2014-06-10 23:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Indeed! That good advice, and versions of it such as "always
spend *LESS* than you earn," have been displaced by the much
more effective/pervasive media indoctrination/propaganda of
a totally unrealistic life style [on credit] and catch
phrases such as "don't leave home without it." [AMEX]
I go on Social Security this year, and I have never had a credit
card.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
CanopyCo
2014-06-11 13:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael A. Terrell
I go on Social Security this year, and I have never had a credit
card.
Get one, now.
Mine has proven quite valuable during my retirement.
Just use it for emergencies only.
Jim Wilkins
2014-06-11 00:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
Indeed! That good advise, and versions of it such as "always
spend *LESS* than you earn," have been displaced by the much
more effective/pervasive media indoctrination/propaganda of
a totally unrealistic life style [on credit] and catch
phrases such as "don't leave home without it." [AMEX]
http://www.strategybg.com/surprise-even-wealthy-retirees-live-on-social-security-and-pensions/
Oregonian Haruspex
2014-06-09 20:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.
Lloyd
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply? It is totally possible
that what you say is more true than we wish to
believe.
With many crops these days, you sign a legal agreement which prevents you
from saving the magical super GMO-frankenseeds that increase your yields.
Scout
2014-06-09 21:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Gunner Asch
Actually..many if not most still do it.
Nosir... not even close. The Elders have been bemoaning this 'failure' for
almost a decade. I live in the midst of a large conclave of LDS farmers.
NONE of them do it. They live land-to-mouth, like most folks who work the
soil.
Lloyd
Do the farmers in your area harvest all, leave
the silos empty and then buy seed in the spring
from the farm supply? It is totally possible
that what you say is more true than we wish to
believe.
And consider that virtual all crops planted these days are sterile hybrids
and thus won't reproduce no matter how much of the prior harvest you have on
hand.

So even if the silos are full....as seed stock the massive bulk of it is
worthless.

How much 'heirloom' seed is actually out there, and can you keep people from
eating the harvest as you attempt to build up your supply of seed?
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time.
You may be behind the pace, George. LDS still maintains that tenet, but
virtually NO members actually now do it. "Too much trouble". They're
becoming "progressivized".
Lloyd
I don't have any data, but I suspect you are correct.
Wish they would have a survey in my area. See what the
actual stats are. My dry canned foods are more than a
decade old, and likely lost any vitamin value. I'd likely
die of malnutrition with a full stomach.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Gunner Asch
2014-06-08 23:44:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 17:36:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
Post by F. George McDuffee
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:28:11 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin'
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 16:55:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
Lloyd
Rave on, boy, rave on.
Your nonsense reminds me of a neighbor of mine back in 1999 as Y2K was
approaching - - - stocking up on canned and dried food, telling me I
was foolish to not do the same . . . mocking me, telling me he'd let
me have a can of soup for $50 after Y2K.
==================
Hope for the best -- plan for the worst;
That way you'll never be disappointed...
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time. Now if
we could just do the same with electricity...
Lots of power companies pushing installing solar cells on your home
and you buying the power from them at far less than the local power
company (or thats the claim)

One can make some serious efforts in this direction if one is handy
and does the work themselves for well under $5k

Gunner



"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
Winston_Smith
2014-06-09 00:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
Lots of power companies pushing installing solar cells on your home
and you buying the power from them at far less than the local power
company (or thats the claim)
Careful on that one. The rates are not regulated like power companies
and can be changed to anything at any time. As long as they are
expanding, the money comes from sales and low rates are a good
advertising ploy. Let the business slow up so monthly power sales
become their only income, and watch out.

In the mean time, they put a lean on your house. You are locked into
dealing with them instead of the power company for the term of the
contact. If you sell the house, the buyer must agree to whatever long
term contract you are in. The only way out is to pay off the
installation value which is stated well above reality.

It buys you nothing in terms of independence from commercial power
because the systems have no charge controller, no batteries, and no
house inverter. All you get are the panels and a custom inverter that
interfaces with the power line. The contract forbids you to modify the
system until you pay it off, usually years later.
Winston_Smith
2014-06-08 23:55:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 17:36:09 -0500, F. George McDuffee
Post by F. George McDuffee
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time. Now if
we could just do the same with electricity...
The trouble is, the majority of them don't, at least around here. I
went into several LDS book stores looking for books about food
preservation and storage. Blank stare from the teenie bopper at the
register.

Manager took me to a section and said if they had anything it would be
there. Not even a cook book. Every last book was some story about how
someone got their life together or realized something wonderful about
the world or dealt with some family crisis.

I fear we will have a lot of starving Mormons if it ever hits the fan.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
The trouble is, the majority of them don't, at least around here. I
went into several LDS book stores looking for books about food
preservation and storage. Blank stare from the teenie bopper at the
register.
Manager took me to a section and said if they had anything it would be
there. Not even a cook book. Every last book was some story about how
someone got their life together or realized something wonderful about
the world or dealt with some family crisis.
I fear we will have a lot of starving Mormons if it ever hits the fan.
Man, that's rough. I hope that isn't typical of the LDS
world in general.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Winston_Smith
2014-06-09 21:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
The trouble is, the majority of them don't, at least around here. I
went into several LDS book stores looking for books about food
preservation and storage. Blank stare from the teenie bopper at the
register.
Manager took me to a section and said if they had anything it would be
there. Not even a cook book. Every last book was some story about how
someone got their life together or realized something wonderful about
the world or dealt with some family crisis.
I fear we will have a lot of starving Mormons if it ever hits the fan.
Man, that's rough. I hope that isn't typical of the LDS world in general.
I will say that among the prepper community, most of them are Mormon.
But they are a tiny, tiny part of the total population. Mesa, an
eastern suburb of the Phoenix valley, was settled by Mormons and the
valley has a huge - as in huge - Mormon population. I think the main
Mesa temple is one of the largest outside of Utah and there are many
dozens of satellite temples scattered around the valley.
rbowman
2014-06-10 03:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Winston_Smith
I will say that among the prepper community, most of them are Mormon.
But they are a tiny, tiny part of the total population. Mesa, an
eastern suburb of the Phoenix valley, was settled by Mormons and the
valley has a huge - as in huge - Mormon population. I think the main
Mesa temple is one of the largest outside of Utah and there are many
dozens of satellite temples scattered around the valley.
Arizona was always a target for expansions. First, you had to get to
southern UT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_in_the_Rock_%28rock_formation%29

Take the reference to the Hole In The Rock Trail in the link as a modern
unpaved road with a grain of salt. I walked the last 2 or 3 miles when the
oil stains on the slickrock from torn open crankcases got to be too
frequent.

Idaho was easier pickings and most of southern and eastern UD is Mormon,too.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
Hope for the best -- plan for the worst;
That way you'll never be disappointed...
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time. Now if
we could just do the same with electricity...
Companies like http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/
sell and install solar panels, wind turbines, and
know how to make bio diesel from waste vegetable
oil.

I've got a year supply of leaky batteries.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
Hope for the best -- plan for the worst;
That way you'll never be disappointed...
The LDS tenet that every family should have a year's supply
of food on hand is making more sense all the time. Now if
we could just do the same with electricity...
It's not all that totally difficult to do. However,
eat what you store, store what you eat takes a
bit more work to get going.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Jeff M
2014-06-08 23:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaus Schadenfreude
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 16:55:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
Lloyd
Rave on, boy, rave on.
Your nonsense reminds me of a neighbor of mine back in 1999 as Y2K was
approaching - - - stocking up on canned and dried food, telling me I
was foolish to not do the same . . . mocking me, telling me he'd let
me have a can of soup for $50 after Y2K.
There are several scenarios that making having some food put by
worthwhile. These include any temporary disruption of food distribution
from transportation strikes to earthquakes like the that expected on the
New Madrid fault system, terrorism by poisoning the food supply anywhere
along the production chain down to on grocery store shelves, which
depend on near daily resupply, or even an unexpected loss of personal
income or employment. It is among the first and best of survival
preparations.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Jeff M
2014-06-08 23:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
Armed invasion, defeating our regular armed forces and imposing
occupation on our civilian population, seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future. Having arable land with the material and abilities
to use it for survival agriculture and animal husbandry, and/or having
skills to barter is a far better safeguard against starvation than
merely owning firearms, although have some is certainly prudent and
something I strongly endorse, if merely for defense against those of you
who also have them, but little else.
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
And how long do you think traditional game, plus dogs, cats and rodents,
will last with all y'all depending on hunting them year round to eat?

Firearms are certainly useful for survival, but they occupy a middling
rank of in any rational plan of preparation for unforeseeable
catastrophe, and by themselves are very likely to prove wholly inadequate.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-09 00:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.

As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future. There's a lot more out there to eat than traditional
'game' beasts.

I _have_ arable land, and the skills to plant and harvest it. If "non-
producers" should decide to dine on my work, I will consider those to be
invaders.

Lloyd
Jeff M
2014-06-09 00:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
An overwhelming diaspora of starving urbanites of into the countryside
is a common enough survivalist theme. But based on my training and
experience, I'm none too sure how that would actually play out, or what
sort of disaster, specifically, would be needed to make it happen.
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future.
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter.
Moreover, if you think the urban hordes are a threat, just imagine how
the local rural folk and hunters might respond if you start to hunt on
what they consider to be their hunting grounds, regardless of its actual
ownership.

We have more than enough trouble over hunting rights, trespassing
hunters, and poaching around here as it is, and that is with most locals
harvesting only one or a few deer per year. But if the locals here see
someone hunting in "their" hunting grounds or upon their property or
leased hunting land, I do know how they tend to react, and that's
without any hungry or starving family back home, depending on them.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Just Wondering
2014-06-09 01:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
An overwhelming diaspora of starving urbanites of into the countryside
is a common enough survivalist theme. But based on my training and
experience, I'm none too sure how that would actually play out, or what
sort of disaster, specifically, would be needed to make it happen.
It wouldn't have to be "an overwhelming diaspora". All it takes is one
or two people desperate enough to attack you for your food.
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future.
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter. Moreover,
if you think the urban hordes are a threat, just imagine how the local
rural folk and hunters might respond if you start to hunt on what they
consider to be their hunting grounds, regardless of its actual ownership.
We have more than enough trouble over hunting rights, trespassing
hunters, and poaching around here as it is, and that is with most locals
harvesting only one or a few deer per year. But if the locals here see
someone hunting in "their" hunting grounds or upon their property or
leased hunting land, I do know how they tend to react, and that's
without any hungry or starving family back home, depending on them.
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
Jeff M
2014-06-09 01:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
An overwhelming diaspora of starving urbanites of into the countryside
is a common enough survivalist theme. But based on my training and
experience, I'm none too sure how that would actually play out, or what
sort of disaster, specifically, would be needed to make it happen.
It wouldn't have to be "an overwhelming diaspora". All it takes is one
or two people desperate enough to attack you for your food.
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future.
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter. Moreover,
if you think the urban hordes are a threat, just imagine how the local
rural folk and hunters might respond if you start to hunt on what they
consider to be their hunting grounds, regardless of its actual ownership.
We have more than enough trouble over hunting rights, trespassing
hunters, and poaching around here as it is, and that is with most locals
harvesting only one or a few deer per year. But if the locals here see
someone hunting in "their" hunting grounds or upon their property or
leased hunting land, I do know how they tend to react, and that's
without any hungry or starving family back home, depending on them.
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I agree. I recommend that anyone wanting to be well prepared, willing
to put in the effort to be at least minimally proficient, and
responsible enough not to be a problem for others ought to definitely
own suitable firearms. But it's not what I consider the first priority.
For example, one can obtain a good fire extinguisher, and decent
supply of long term food, and many other basic survival essentials
besides, for the price of a good firearm.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Just Wondering
2014-06-09 15:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
Post by Just Wondering
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
An overwhelming diaspora of starving urbanites of into the countryside
is a common enough survivalist theme. But based on my training and
experience, I'm none too sure how that would actually play out, or what
sort of disaster, specifically, would be needed to make it happen.
It wouldn't have to be "an overwhelming diaspora". All it takes is one
or two people desperate enough to attack you for your food.
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future.
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter. Moreover,
if you think the urban hordes are a threat, just imagine how the local
rural folk and hunters might respond if you start to hunt on what they
consider to be their hunting grounds, regardless of its actual ownership.
We have more than enough trouble over hunting rights, trespassing
hunters, and poaching around here as it is, and that is with most locals
harvesting only one or a few deer per year. But if the locals here see
someone hunting in "their" hunting grounds or upon their property or
leased hunting land, I do know how they tend to react, and that's
without any hungry or starving family back home, depending on them.
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I agree. I recommend that anyone wanting to be well prepared, willing
to put in the effort to be at least minimally proficient, and
responsible enough not to be a problem for others ought to definitely
own suitable firearms. But it's not what I consider the first priority.
For example, one can obtain a good fire extinguisher, and decent
supply of long term food, and many other basic survival essentials
besides, for the price of a good firearm.
Yep. Food storage is priority no. 1. Actually, depending where you
live, potable water storage is priority no. 1. After all, if supply
lines all go down, you can live for weeks without food but only days
without water. Plus, a lot of what people use for food storage is cans
of dehydrated stuff. It will store without spoiling for years, but
without water it is basically inedible. Which is why my food storage
consists of overstocking on the canned and packaged foods we eat all the
time anyway, and I keep about a hundred gallons of water stored in
containers.
I'm not really worried about the immediate future, but for a few hundred
bucks I'm prepared to last out long enough to grow a crop if I have to.
Plus, I have farmer friends near the Snake River who have thousands of
acres planted in wheat and potatoes, and who would take me in if worse
came to worst.
In a SHTF situation, it would really suck to live in New York or Los
Angeles.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-10 11:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Yep. Food storage is priority no. 1. Actually, depending where you
live, potable water storage is priority no. 1. After all, if supply
lines all go down, you can live for weeks without food but only days
without water. Plus, a lot of what people use for food storage is cans
of dehydrated stuff. It will store without spoiling for years, but
without water it is basically inedible. Which is why my food storage
consists of overstocking on the canned and packaged foods we eat all the
time anyway, and I keep about a hundred gallons of water stored in
containers.
I'm not really worried about the immediate future, but for a few hundred
bucks I'm prepared to last out long enough to grow a crop if I have to.
Plus, I have farmer friends near the Snake River who have thousands of
acres planted in wheat and potatoes, and who would take me in if worse
came to worst.
In a SHTF situation, it would really suck to live in New York or Los
Angeles.
I'd think:
air
water
medical
food
rest of the list
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
F. George McDuffee
2014-06-10 22:06:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 09:55:40 -0600, Just Wondering
<***@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Just Wondering
In a SHTF situation, it would really suck to live in New York or Los
Angeles.
<snip>

Or any hyper urban area such as Sao Paulo [c. 11.5 million
officially] or Shanghai [c. 14.5 million officially]. These
massive concentrations of people [> 10 million] are totally
dependant on outside supplies of everything. A power
failure of more than a day and they begin to choke on their
own sewage/garbage. These are death traps if anything goes
wrong for more than a day, *AND SOONER OR LATER IT ALWAYS
DOES*.

FYI
http://esa.un.org/unup/
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresilient-cities.iclei.org%2Ffileadmin%2Fsites%2Fresilient-cities%2Ffiles%2FResilient_Cities_2014%2FPPTs%2FC%2FC3_Rommeney.pdf&ei=IYGXU_G6DIW2yATvl4DIBQ&usg=AFQjCNEtQHe-omxILPKgM4SONc-J3iMO0Q&sig2=gcsKYTWhQ0sWo9lndINvtQ&bvm=bv.68693194,d.aWw
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government
regulation, rather in a crisis they will
ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.

Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-09 15:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government
regulation, rather in a crisis they will
ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.
A good reason to get behind my suggestion from years gone by, that we
pass an amendment to the constitution that limits all Federal laws and
Treaties with a *SUNSET* *CLAUSE* that sunsets all laws and Treaties
after 7 years so they have to be voted on singularly with a roll call
vote in congress to be passed for another 7 years.


That will rid us of all the useless laws that are on the books that are
no longer of any value to society, as it will mean that there will be a
reason to prioritize the value of the laws and the time will need to be
spent only on passing the most important and useful laws.
Post by Stormin Mormon
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
How many jail cells does the government have?

Is Obama releasing people from drugs and immigration in preparation for
an assault on the gun owners?
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 17:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
A good reason to get behind my suggestion from years gone by, that we
pass an amendment to the constitution that limits all Federal laws and
Treaties with a *SUNSET* *CLAUSE* that sunsets all laws and Treaties
after 7 years so they have to be voted on singularly with a roll call
vote in congress to be passed for another 7 years.
That will rid us of all the useless laws that are on the books that are
no longer of any value to society, as it will mean that there will be a
reason to prioritize the value of the laws and the time will need to be
spent only on passing the most important and useful laws.
Do you think the PTB will pass some thing that
limits thier powers? Better to stick with
reality, please.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-09 17:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
A good reason to get behind my suggestion from years gone by, that we
pass an amendment to the constitution that limits all Federal laws and
Treaties with a *SUNSET* *CLAUSE* that sunsets all laws and Treaties
after 7 years so they have to be voted on singularly with a roll call
vote in congress to be passed for another 7 years.
That will rid us of all the useless laws that are on the books that are
no longer of any value to society, as it will mean that there will be a
reason to prioritize the value of the laws and the time will need to be
spent only on passing the most important and useful laws.
Do you think the PTB will pass some thing that
limits thier powers? Better to stick with
reality, please.
The states can do it... That's closer to the people.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 17:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Stormin Mormon
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
How many jail cells does the government have?
Is Obama releasing people from drugs
and immigration in preparation for
an assault on the gun owners?
I'd think that very possible. After all, the
American Revolution wasn't waged by bong waving
druggies.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Just Wondering
2014-06-09 15:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government
regulation, rather in a crisis they will
ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
Who said I own any guns? Nope, if I ever owned a gun, which I would
never do, they were all sold or stolen years ago. No guns here, officer.
Wayne
2014-06-09 16:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government
regulation, rather in a crisis they will
ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
# Who said I own any guns? Nope, if I ever owned a gun, which I would
# never do, they were all sold or stolen years ago. No guns here, officer.

Same here. All guns were bought and sold before the current laws went into
effect.
All were bought from Bob Smith and sold to John Smith. Or was it the other
way around?
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 17:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
# Who said I own any guns? Nope, if I ever owned a gun, which I would
# never do, they were all sold or stolen years ago. No guns here, officer.
Same here. All guns were bought and sold before the current laws went
into effect.
All were bought from Bob Smith and sold to John Smith. Or was it the
other way around?
Step over by the car while my partner gets his
set out....
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 17:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Who said I own any guns? Nope, if I ever owned a gun, which I would
never do, they were all sold or stolen years ago. No guns here, officer.
I need you to slowly step over here, and
put your hands on the hood of my patrol
car.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Gunner Asch
2014-06-09 20:43:37 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 13:13:22 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Who said I own any guns? Nope, if I ever owned a gun, which I would
never do, they were all sold or stolen years ago. No guns here, officer.
I need you to slowly step over here, and
put your hands on the hood of my patrol
car.
At which point the wife or your buddy(s) , from cover..dusts off that
individual and while any others are ducking for cover..you shoot them
in the back of the head.

when its over...you call headquarters and say you just got home from
the store and there are dead people out front and can they send more
people? Rinse and repeat.

Pretty soon there isnt anyone to send.




"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
Gunner Asch
2014-06-09 20:37:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 07:44:45 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Post by Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will still
also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a gun
to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government
regulation, rather in a crisis they will
ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you
locked up, when the searches and confiscation
begins?
Oh it is entirely possible..up to the point which the government sends
men out to do the searches and confiscation..and dont come back.

Do that several times..and the guys themselves stop going into those
areas.


"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
news13
2014-06-10 13:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 07:44:45 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Post by Just Wondering
Assuming all you say is true, in a SHTF situation, two things will
still also be true. 1. With no means of protection, you're basically
screwed. 2. Your chances, whatever they may be, are better with a
gun to protect and provide for you and yours than if you don't have
one.
I don't forsee any reduction of government regulation, rather in a
crisis they will ratchet up the regulations, martial law, etc.
Is it possible that owning a gun will get you locked up, when the
searches and confiscation begins?
Oh it is entirely possible..up to the point which the government sends
men out to do the searches and confiscation..and dont come back.
Do that several times..and the guys themselves stop going into those
areas.
Two fantasies in one thread gumboil?
the problem with your fantasies is they assume everyone is more stupid
than you and that just isnt likely.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-09 01:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter.
Well, first of all, a cold climate isn't an easy place for survival.
I live in Florida, where everything grows with abandon, including 'food'
animals like snakes and frogs and crawdads and crows.

I do not culture it, but have a 1/4-acre pond on my property that hosts
roughly ten thousand frogs (unconfirmed <G>). That's a continually-
renewable resource, except in times of severe drought. And since we're
situated in what's termed "Florida Flatwoods" where the mean water table
is 1' or less below the surface, the pond keeps water even in the worst
droughts we've had in the last 25 years.

Yep, 'country boys' might object to folks hunting on their land, but
they'll also band together to hunt together and share on the basis of
need. Maybe that's the difference. Everyone in this ten government
sections 'swaps work', and shares their catch. Always have. Good folks.

As far as what sort of 'calamity' it would take to get the slum-dwellers
out into the country... just consider what would happen if the interstate
highways into/out of a major city were blocked and the power was out for
more than a month.

Lloyd
Jeff M
2014-06-09 01:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
If you say so, but I seriously doubt it, especially once a little time
has passed, given just how much it takes to survive for any length of
time on a meat-centric diet, especially through a cold winter.
Well, first of all, a cold climate isn't an easy place for survival.
I live in Florida, where everything grows with abandon, including 'food'
animals like snakes and frogs and crawdads and crows.
I'm up in the Panhandle, a.k.a., LA. Of course, I'm speaking in broad
generalities, and my comments don't apply to anything close to 100% of
would-be survival hunters. Obviously, some will make it, by some
combination of luck and skill, even if many others won't.
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
I do not culture it, but have a 1/4-acre pond on my property that hosts
roughly ten thousand frogs (unconfirmed <G>). That's a continually-
renewable resource, except in times of severe drought. And since we're
situated in what's termed "Florida Flatwoods" where the mean water table
is 1' or less below the surface, the pond keeps water even in the worst
droughts we've had in the last 25 years.
Yep, 'country boys' might object to folks hunting on their land, but
they'll also band together to hunt together and share on the basis of
need. Maybe that's the difference. Everyone in this ten government
sections 'swaps work', and shares their catch. Always have. Good folks.
Being a part of some type of good community, whether extended family,
church-based, or just friends and neighbors, is perhaps one of the most
important, and most overlooked, keys to disaster survival and recovery.
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
As far as what sort of 'calamity' it would take to get the slum-dwellers
out into the country... just consider what would happen if the interstate
highways into/out of a major city were blocked and the power was out for
more than a month.
Actually, I have, quite extensively. The fact is that, generally
speaking, outside aid in quantity will reach more populous urban areas
before it reaches more rural areas, by design. It helps if there's a
surviving air or sea port, a rail line, or less damage, e.g., fewer
damaged bridges and overpasses, to roadways, but expect the aid to go
where the the most people who need it are, regardless.

For example, after the earthquake in Haiti, we went first to the urban
areas to set up, then sent out strike teams to the surrounding smaller
towns and rural areas later. That's where the airport and seaport were,
and where the people were. Even though they were damaged, we were able
to quickly utilize them. Moreover, although I can't factually confirm
it, it seemed to me that people were pouring into the city from the
countryside, not the reverse.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
2014-06-09 00:46:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:00:52 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future. There's a lot more out there to eat than traditional
'game' beasts.
I _have_ arable land, and the skills to plant and harvest it. If "non-
producers" should decide to dine on my work, I will consider those to be
invaders.
Lloyd
Lordy, what bizarre shit you people dream up.

Are you chewing peyote or something?
Guy Fawkes
2014-06-09 01:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:00:52 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Jeff M
seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future.
I was hardly thinking of "armed forces", but rather invading hoards of
starving "city dwellers" (leaving at that, so as not to seem 'biased')
foraging in the country, not upon the land, but upon the country-
dwellers.
As far as how long the game will last... For those who know how, where,
and what to hunt _to_survive_, there's a surfeit of food for the
forseeable future. There's a lot more out there to eat than traditional
'game' beasts.
I _have_ arable land, and the skills to plant and harvest it. If "non-
producers" should decide to dine on my work, I will consider those to be
invaders.
Lloyd
Lordy, what bizarre shit you people dream up.
Are you chewing peyote or something?
Yeah, God knows with the economy booming and foreign governments cowering
in fear we are invincible.
--
When the government is no longer constrained by the laws of the land, then
neither are the people.
Just Wondering
2014-06-09 00:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
Smarter than folks who would give up their lives to invaders or starve for
lack of grocery stores!
Armed invasion, defeating our regular armed forces and imposing
occupation on our civilian population, seems quite unlikely for the
foreseeable future. Having arable land with the material and abilities
to use it for survival agriculture and animal husbandry, and/or having
skills to barter is a far better safeguard against starvation than
merely owning firearms, although have some is certainly prudent and
something I strongly endorse, if merely for defense against those of you
who also have them, but little else.
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
And how long do you think traditional game, plus dogs, cats and rodents,
will last with all y'all depending on hunting them year round to eat?
Firearms are certainly useful for survival, but they occupy a middling
rank of in any rational plan of preparation for unforeseeable
catastrophe, and by themselves are very likely to prove wholly inadequate.
True, guns alone will not protect you from disaster if (or if you
prefer, when) the crash / zombie apocalypse comes, but some means of
protecting yourself and loved ones from thieves and mauraders is a
necessary and prudent part of any preparation plan.
Jeff M
2014-06-09 01:02:21 UTC
Permalink
On 6/8/2014 7:46 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
[snip]
Post by Just Wondering
True, guns alone will not protect you from disaster if (or if you
prefer, when) the crash / zombie apocalypse comes, but some means of
protecting yourself and loved ones from thieves and mauraders is a
necessary and prudent part of any preparation plan.
I agree.
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
"Gun nuts" almost all know how (and what) to hunt. What will you assholes
do when the grocery stores run out of chunked-and-formed chicken nuggets?
Lloyd
Call their congress critter on Obama phone.
Demand help, like the folks in New Orleans did
after hurricane Katrena. Look where it got them.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
F. George McDuffee
2014-06-08 22:31:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 17:45:10 -0400, Kickin' Ass and Takin'
Post by Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 09:43:58 -0700, "raykeller"
Post by raykeller
Sounds good but they are disregarding inflation
The Coming Crash in Ammunition Prices
Gun Watch ^ | 7 June, 2014 | Dean Weingarten
The Obama caused bubble in ammunition prices seems ready to bust. Over the
last few years people have seen ammunition prices double or triple. Handgun
and rifle ammunition has been hard to find at times. .22 long rifle
ammunition tripled in price over the last 18 months. People would line up
to buy ammunition at prices two and three times the level that they were
just two years ago.
All of that is about to change. Ammunition supply looks as though it is
ready to catch up with demand. Centerfire pistol and rifle cartridges are
available on most store shelves. When I walked into a local Wal-Mart this
morning, their were over 30 signs on the ammunition case indicating a
rollback of prices by 10-15%.
In classic economic fashion, the bubble was fueled by actions of the Federal
government. Many federal agencies bought enormous quantities of
ammunition.
Bullshit. The feds DID NOT "BUY" enormous quantities of ammo. The
feds CONTRACTED TO PURCHASE AMMO OVER SEVERAL YEARS. When you look at
the quantities and the number of years over which those quantities
were spread, it was no big deal.
HOWEVER -- the NRA and their loony followers shrieked and ranted about
Obama plotting a takeover or some such bullshit, thereby frightening
the knuckle draggers who rushed out to buy ammo, thereby creating a
shortage . . . the fed purchases had nothing to do with it.
But, then, no one ever accused you gunnuts of being very smart.
======================

Not all but some of the "gunnuts" invested in ammunition
rather than gold and silver.

*IF* the big crash comes and things go to hell, it is highly
likely that one of the most sought after and therefor most
valuable trading goods will be ammunition. As many people
have pointed out, you can't eat gold or silver, but with
ammunition you can hunt and trade. It is compact and stores
very well.
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
2014-06-08 22:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
As many people
have pointed out, you can't eat gold or silver, but with
ammunition you can hunt and trade. It is compact and stores
very well.
And it's not a useless asset, even if you don't require to hunt with it
or trade it. It has intrinsic value, and you can always practice with it
when there are no other demands for the product.

Practicing using a weapon is almost as important as _having_ one.

Lloyd
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
Not all but some of the "gunnuts" invested in ammunition
rather than gold and silver.
*IF* the big crash comes and things go to hell, it is highly
likely that one of the most sought after and therefor most
valuable trading goods will be ammunition. As many people
have pointed out, you can't eat gold or silver, but with
ammunition you can hunt and trade. It is compact and stores
very well.
We can work together. I'm invested in leaky
flashlights. We can go jacking deer with my
night flashlights.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Just Wondering
2014-06-09 00:41:08 UTC
Permalink
... the NRA and their followers shrieked about
Obama plotting a takeover, thereby frightening
the knuckle draggers who rushed out to buy ammo, thereby creating a
shortage . . .
It wasn't the NRA. Obama and his scardey-pants camp followers made
noises about increased gun control regulations, which would have no
effect on criminals but would infringe on the rights of law-abiding
gunowners. The predictable and natural response was for people to make
their future ammo purchases now, as a precaution against an uncertain
future when such purchases might be more difficult. So it was Obama and
his ilk, NOT the NRA, that pushed gunowners into increased ammo
purchases, thereby creating the shortage.
Gunner Asch
2014-06-09 01:53:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 18:41:08 -0600, Just Wondering
Post by Just Wondering
... the NRA and their followers shrieked about
Obama plotting a takeover, thereby frightening
the knuckle draggers who rushed out to buy ammo, thereby creating a
shortage . . .
It wasn't the NRA. Obama and his scardey-pants camp followers made
noises about increased gun control regulations, which would have no
effect on criminals but would infringe on the rights of law-abiding
gunowners. The predictable and natural response was for people to make
their future ammo purchases now, as a precaution against an uncertain
future when such purchases might be more difficult. So it was Obama and
his ilk, NOT the NRA, that pushed gunowners into increased ammo
purchases, thereby creating the shortage.
And the Obama Ilk continue it in many states..California is a prime
example

http://www.calgunlaws.com/pending-legislation/

They dont even want kids to own BB guns.

http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml?summary=sb199&year=2014

Odd how the Left feels Federal Law trumps state law..until it comes
into conflict with Federal Law...

Latest Info: 06/06/2014 - Senate Bill 199 would ban the
sale/transfer of used and antique BB devices and imitation firearms
that are not colored, as specified. Congress preempted state law and
stated that federal statute would supersede any state or local laws
requiring "markings or identification inconsistent with provisions" of
the federal statute. 15 U.S.C. §5001(g). In addition, federal statute
specifically prohibits a state from banning the sale of traditional
air guns. SB 199 is expected to be heard in the Assembly Public Safety
Committee on Tuesday, June 24.

Funny that.

Most..most of California is a Red State, not a blue one...yet the Left
totally ignores that factoid.

Loading Image...


When the Lefties are hung from the nearest awning, phone pole or tree
with a barbed wire noose..it will simply be Glorious!!!

(Grin)


"Libertarianism IS fascism... Fascism is corporate government – a Libertarian’s wet dream"
Tala Brandeis
Owner at Tala Brandeis Associates"
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-09 11:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just Wondering
Obama and his scardey-pants camp followers made
noises about increased gun control regulations, which would have no
effect on criminals but would infringe on the rights of law-abiding
gunowners. The predictable and natural response was for people to make
their future ammo purchases now, as a precaution against an uncertain
future when such purchases might be more difficult. So it was Obama and
his ilk, NOT the NRA, that pushed gunowners into increased ammo
purchases, thereby creating the shortage.
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
rbowman
2014-06-09 13:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.

I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
Paul K. Dickman
2014-06-09 15:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
It was all a hoax.
Part of a grand conspiracy between Obama, Remington and Wal-Mart to drive up
prices and to fund the Dept of the Interior with the increased revenues from
the Firearms and Ammunition Excise tax.

Paul K. Dickman
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-09 15:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul K. Dickman
Post by rbowman
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
It was all a hoax.
Part of a grand conspiracy between Obama, Remington and Wal-Mart to drive up
prices and to fund the Dept of the Interior with the increased revenues from
the Firearms and Ammunition Excise tax.
Paul K. Dickman
Yet another violation of the constitution by Obama?

Obama hates the constitution and he hates America and the Americans in it.
raykeller
2014-06-09 15:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul K. Dickman
Post by rbowman
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
It was all a hoax.
Part of a grand conspiracy between Obama, Remington and Wal-Mart to drive
up prices and to fund the Dept of the Interior with the increased revenues
from the Firearms and Ammunition Excise tax.
Paul K. Dickhead
ROTFLMAO
What a dumbass
Plink
David R. Birch
2014-06-10 00:00:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
Was that clerk named Biden?

David
BeamMeUpScotty
2014-06-10 01:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by David R. Birch
Post by rbowman
Post by Stormin Mormon
I remember hearing about government doing mass
purchases of ammo, which helped to shrink the
supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic
administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
I recall overhearing a conversation at a gun store counter in 2008. An older
gentleman was absolutely sure he wanted an AR although he didn't seem to
actually know what one was. He wanted it for 'home defense'. To his credit,
the clerk recommended a shotgun.
Was that clerk named Biden?
David
Good one....

And Feinstein would have sold her pistol.



All we really need to do is run for Congress and we can have unlimited
gun rights like all the congressional Democrats seem to have.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-10 11:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an unfounded
rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic administration can
do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
Johny Carson did that one time. I tried to
duplicate his results:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/toiletpaper.htm#.U5bmVCeCCiY
Yes, I'm the author of the Clappington toilet
paper hoax email.

I had nothing to do with the run on ammo.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
news13
2014-06-10 14:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
I remember hearing about government doing mass purchases of ammo, which
helped to shrink the supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an
unfounded rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic
administration can do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
It is always good for permanent price increases, if there really was a
shortage. Only now are the news sources reporting an "ammo shortage" in
our piddly ammo market.
Jeff M
2014-06-10 15:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
I remember hearing about government doing mass purchases of ammo,
which helped to shrink the supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an
unfounded rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic
administration can do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition industry?
--
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
rbowman
2014-06-11 03:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition industry?
The Democrats.

http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml#tax_rate

Note that the Firearms Excise Tax is 10 or 11% of the sale price.
CanopyCo
2014-06-11 13:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbowman
Post by Jeff M
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition
industry?
The Democrats.
http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml#tax_rate
Note that the Firearms Excise Tax is 10 or 11% of the sale price.
That is what, $3 on a $300 gun?
Oh my god, now I can't afford it anymore!

If $3 was to much more to pay then you couldn't afford it in the first place.

Most places can drop $3 off their profit and still give it to you at your preferred $300 instead of the now $303.

;-)
debbie
2014-06-11 13:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by CanopyCo
Post by rbowman
Post by Jeff M
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition
industry?
The Democrats.
http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml#tax_rate
Note that the Firearms Excise Tax is 10 or 11% of the sale price.
That is what, $3 on a $300 gun?
Oh my god, now I can't afford it anymore!
If $3 was to much more to pay then you couldn't afford it in the first place.
Most places can drop $3 off their profit and still give it to you at your preferred $300 instead of the now $303.
;-)
No, it would be $30 on a $300 gun.
CanopyCo
2014-06-11 14:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by debbie
Post by CanopyCo
Post by rbowman
Post by Jeff M
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition
industry?
The Democrats.
http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml#tax_rate
Note that the Firearms Excise Tax is 10 or 11% of the sale price.
That is what, $3 on a $300 gun?
Oh my god, now I can't afford it anymore!
If $3 was to much more to pay then you couldn't afford it in the first place.
Most places can drop $3 off their profit and still give it to you at your preferred $300 instead of the now $303.
;-)
No, it would be $30 on a $300 gun.
Crap!
I need to wake up more before I come here!

:-/
debbie
2014-06-11 14:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by CanopyCo
Post by debbie
Post by CanopyCo
Post by rbowman
Post by Jeff M
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition
industry?
The Democrats.
http://www.ttb.gov/firearms/faet-faqs.shtml#tax_rate
Note that the Firearms Excise Tax is 10 or 11% of the sale price.
That is what, $3 on a $300 gun?
Oh my god, now I can't afford it anymore!
If $3 was to much more to pay then you couldn't afford it in the first place.
Most places can drop $3 off their profit and still give it to you at your preferred $300 instead of the now $303.
;-)
No, it would be $30 on a $300 gun.
Crap!
I need to wake up more before I come here!
:-/
Have another cup of coffee:)
rbowman
2014-06-12 01:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by CanopyCo
I need to wake up more before I come here!
So do I. Make that a one hundred dollar bill you're giving to the Feds when
you buy an AR.
rbowman
2014-06-11 14:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by CanopyCo
That is what, $3 on a $300 gun?
Oh my god, now I can't afford it anymore!
How would you feel about an additional 11% tax on everything you purchase?
Tell you what, I wouldn't mind getting $10 for every AR that goes out the
door or $2 for every box of .223 ammo.

Next, consider cigarettes. If a publicity campaign doesn't work, just tax
them out of existence. Nudge up the FAET. It's a win-win for the
gungrabbers. Let the firearms industry finance its own demise like the
tobacco industry.
Stormin Mormon
2014-06-12 11:21:37 UTC
Permalink
Gun Control feeds into your Neurosis.
You fear runs you and you will do anything to abate and satisfy that fear.
I know people with neurotic problems, fear of snake and cats and
lightening and people... and they will lie and hide in a closet and do
almost anything to get away from what they fear, the irrational becomes
rational to them.
The fear of guns is NOT a problem of society it's between your ears.
Get some help.
And with so many things, people pick what to believe.
When thouands of good people carry guns all day, that
is a non fact. Just let one crazy go on a rampage, and
that's proof (to the neurotic) that all people need to
stop carrying guns. The CCW pistol packing mama who
takes down a mall shooter, that's also a non fact to the
neurotic.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
CanopyCo
2014-06-11 13:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff M
Post by rbowman
I remember hearing about government doing mass purchases of ammo,
which helped to shrink the supply side of the picture.
Several of the ammunition manufacturers stated that the government
purchases were routine and didn't affect the supply chain. If an
unfounded rumor can clear the shelves of toilet paper, a Democratic
administration can do the same thing for firearms and ammunition.
Hmmm. I wonder who has the most to gain from circulating an unfounded
rumor that incites public fears, spurs ammunition sales and drives up
prices, "a Democratic administration," or the firearms/ammunition industry?
Or the republicans trying to make problems for the democrats?
Or the militia nuts trying to incite a civil war, or at very least justify their fears?
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