Discussion:
Why I am a Climate Change Skeptic
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raykeller
2015-03-21 06:47:06 UTC
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http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/03/20/why-i-am-climate-change-skeptic

There is good reason to study the science of climate, ecology, and more, but
what has passed for science for some is not. --

Why I am a Climate Change Skeptic
March 20, 2015 | Patrick Moore

Editorâ?Ts Note: Patrick Moore, Ph.D., has been a leader in international
environmentalism for more than 40 years. He cofounded Greenpeace and
currently serves as chair of Allow Golden Rice. Moore received the 2014
Speaks Truth to Power Award at the Ninth International Conference on Climate
Change, July 8, in Las Vegas.

I am skeptical humans are the main cause of climate change and that it will
be catastrophic in the near future. There is no scientific proof of this
hypothesis, yet we are told â?othe debate is overâ? and â?othe science is
settled.�

My skepticism begins with the believersâ?T certainty they can predict the
global climate with a computer model. The entire basis for the doomsday
climate change scenario is the hypothesis increased atmospheric carbon
dioxide due to fossil fuel emissions will heat the Earth to unlivable
temperatures.

In fact, the Earth has been warming very gradually for 300 years, since the
Little Ice Age ended, long before heavy use of fossil fuels. Prior to the
Little Ice Age, during the Medieval Warm Period, Vikings colonized Greenland
and Newfoundland, when it was warmer there than today. And during Roman
times, it was warmer, long before fossil fuels revolutionized civilization.

The idea it would be catastrophic if carbon dioxide were to increase and
average global temperature were to rise a few degrees is preposterous.

Recently, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) announced for
the umpteenth time we are doomed unless we reduce carbon-dioxide emissions
to zero. Effectively this means either reducing the population to zero, or
going back 10,000 years before humans began clearing forests for
agriculture. This proposed cure is far worse than adapting to a warmer
world, if it actually comes about.

IPCC Conflict of Interest

By its constitution, the IPCC has a hopeless conflict of interest. Its
mandate is to consider only the human causes of global warming, not the many
natural causes changing the climate for billions of years. We donâ?Tt
understand the natural causes of climate change any more than we know if
humans are part of the cause at present. If the IPCC did not find humans
were the cause of warming, or if it found warming would be more positive
than negative, there would be no need for the IPCC under its present
mandate. To survive, it must find on the side of the apocalypse.

The IPCC should either have its mandate expanded to include all causes of
climate change, or it should be dismantled.

Political Powerhouse

Climate change has become a powerful political force for many reasons.
First, it is universal; we are told everything on Earth is threatened.
Second, it invokes the two most powerful human motivators: fear and guilt.
We fear driving our car will kill our grandchildren, and we feel guilty for
doing it.

Third, there is a powerful convergence of interests among key elites that
support the climate â?onarrative.â? Environmentalists spread fear and raise
donations; politicians appear to be saving the Earth from doom; the media
has a field day with sensation and conflict; science institutions raise
billions in grants, create whole new departments, and stoke a feeding frenzy
of scary scenarios; business wants to look green, and get huge public
subsidies for projects that would otherwise be economic losers, such as wind
farms and solar arrays. Fourth, the Left sees climate change as a perfect
means to redistribute wealth from industrial countries to the developing
world and the UN bureaucracy.

So we are told carbon dioxide is a â?otoxicâ? â?opollutantâ? that must be
curtailed, when in fact it is a colorless, odorless, tasteless, gas and the
most important food for life on earth. Without carbon dioxide above 150
parts per million, all plants would die.

Human Emissions Saved Planet

Over the past 150 million years, carbon dioxide had been drawn down steadily
(by plants) from about 3,000 parts per million to about 280 parts per
million before the Industrial Revolution. If this trend continued, the
carbon dioxide level would have become too low to support life on Earth.
Human fossil fuel use and clearing land for crops have boosted carbon
dioxide from its lowest level in the history of the Earth back to 400 parts
per million today.

At 400 parts per million, all our food crops, forests, and natural
ecosystems are still on a starvation diet for carbon dioxide. The optimum
level of carbon dioxide for plant growth, given enough water and nutrients,
is about 1,500 parts per million, nearly four times higher than today.
Greenhouse growers inject carbon-dioxide to increase yields. Farms and
forests will produce more if carbon-dioxide keeps rising.

We have no proof increased carbon dioxide is responsible for the earthâ?Ts
slight warming over the past 300 years. There has been no significant
warming for 18 years while we have emitted 25 per cent of all the carbon
dioxide ever emitted. Carbon dioxide is vital for life on Earth and plants
would like more of it. Which should we emphasize to our children?

Celebrate Carbon Dioxide

The IPCCâ?Ts followers have given us a vision of a world dying because of
carbon-dioxide emissions. I say the Earth would be a lot deader with no
carbon dioxide, and more of it will be a very positive factor in feeding the
world. Letâ?Ts celebrate carbon dioxide.
Stormin Mormon
2015-03-21 12:14:07 UTC
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Frank
2015-03-21 13:14:53 UTC
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Stormin Mormon
2015-03-21 13:56:29 UTC
Permalink
world. Letâ?Ts learn how to copy and paste!
Been through this with one of my correspondents.
Depends on writer and reader software seeing code differently.
I^@w'm s#&ure you#!'re ri(^gh^&t.

-
.
Christopher A($. Young
learn more about J@%esus
. www.lds^*#.org
.
.
news13
2015-03-22 05:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Why I am a Climate Change Skeptic March 20, 2015 | Patrick Moore
Editorâ?Ts Note: Patrick Moore, Ph.D., has been a leader in
international
Has been? He wasn't the guy who had a major dummy spit when people wanted
to do more than sit around a camp fire singing kumbyaa?
I am skeptical humans are the main cause of climate change
If he really wrote this then any implied reputation is totally
undeserved. Clearly an article to muddy the debate.
7+billion arseholes must have some effect.
Probably more correct to say 8 these days.
Keep rooting for a bigger shit pile.
One Party System
2015-03-23 00:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Why I am a Climate Change Skeptic March 20, 2015 | Patrick Moore
Editorâ?Ts Note: Patrick Moore, Ph.D., has been a leader in
international
Has been? He wasn't the guy who had a major dummy spit when people wanted
to do more than sit around a camp fire singing kumbyaa?
I am skeptical humans are the main cause of climate change
If he really wrote this then any implied reputation is totally
undeserved. Clearly an article to muddy the debate.
7+billion arseholes must have some effect.
Probably more correct to say 8 these days.
Keep rooting for a bigger shit pile.
Must have some effect? Well then, present your evidence. or just kill
yourself if you think man is the poroblem.

The earth is 4.5 billion years old. To extrapolate trends from a few
decades of questionable data is beyond unscientific, it is quite
preposterous. People whose lives have little meaning in search of meaning.
Sad.
--
There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient
to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an
easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to
make themselves prominent before the public.

Booker T. Washington
Wayne
2015-03-23 01:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Why I am a Climate Change Skeptic March 20, 2015 | Patrick Moore
Editorâ?Ts Note: Patrick Moore, Ph.D., has been a leader in
international
Has been? He wasn't the guy who had a major dummy spit when people wanted
to do more than sit around a camp fire singing kumbyaa?
I am skeptical humans are the main cause of climate change
If he really wrote this then any implied reputation is totally
undeserved. Clearly an article to muddy the debate.
7+billion arseholes must have some effect.
Probably more correct to say 8 these days.
Keep rooting for a bigger shit pile.
# Must have some effect? Well then, present your evidence. or just kill
# yourself if you think man is the poroblem.

# The earth is 4.5 billion years old. To extrapolate trends from a few
# decades of questionable data is beyond unscientific, it is quite
# preposterous. People whose lives have little meaning in search of meaning.
# Sad.

Humans are just a temporary surface infection of Earth. Earth will get
along just fine, with or without us.
news13
2015-03-23 03:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Party System
Must have some effect? Well then, present your evidence. or just kill
yourself if you think man is the poroblem.
You mean the situation in NY is not a good enough example?
Post by One Party System
The earth is 4.5 billion years old. To extrapolate trends from a few
decades of questionable data is beyond unscientific, it is quite
preposterous. People whose lives have little meaning in search of meaning.
Is that why you mae your post.
Yep, the earth might be estimated to be about 4.5 billion years old, but
how long has it been habitable for humans? That is the question.

Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?

The quote on slashdot showed what an out of touch whacko that guy really
was. Basically "plants live in a carbon starvation situation", thus
implying that increased Co2 would be great, but what he ignored is the
research that given a richer carbon environment, our food plants look
after their own interests and become course roughage at best.
Post by One Party System
Sad.
that you are not looking and wondering is correct.
Frankly who knows, but party-party-party doesn't seem the best approach.
Scout
2015-03-23 04:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by One Party System
Must have some effect? Well then, present your evidence. or just kill
yourself if you think man is the poroblem.
You mean the situation in NY is not a good enough example?
Post by One Party System
The earth is 4.5 billion years old. To extrapolate trends from a few
decades of questionable data is beyond unscientific, it is quite
preposterous. People whose lives have little meaning in search of meaning.
Is that why you mae your post.
Yep, the earth might be estimated to be about 4.5 billion years old, but
how long has it been habitable for humans? That is the question.
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the nice
warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why we
shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just more of
the same natural process.
news13
2015-03-23 09:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the
nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why
we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just
more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock up
on flavouring for all the snowcones.
One Party System
2015-03-23 11:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the
nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why
we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just
more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock up
on flavouring for all the snowcones.
the infestation to be wiped out

Yes you are quite insane. And a danger to human civilization.
--
There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient
to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an
easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to
make themselves prominent before the public.

Booker T. Washington
news13
2015-03-24 11:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Party System
Post by news13
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock
up on flavouring for all the snowcones.
the infestation to be wiped out
Yes you are quite insane. And a danger to human civilization.
History records that a few civilisations survived on long-pig on the spit.
Shrug.

Scout
2015-03-23 17:23:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the
nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why
we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just
more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock up
on flavouring for all the snowcones.
IOW, I point at a flaw in your reasoning, and all you've got is spittle
filled hatred and insults as your rebuttal?
Gunner Asch
2015-03-23 18:05:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 13:23:47 -0400, "Scout"
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the
nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why
we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just
more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock up
on flavouring for all the snowcones.
IOW, I point at a flaw in your reasoning, and all you've got is spittle
filled hatred and insults as your rebuttal?
Did you expect anything else from the mental case?


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
news13
2015-03-24 10:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner Asch
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 13:23:47 -0400, "Scout"
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into
the nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to
explain why we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going
on now is just more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock
up on flavouring for all the snowcones.
IOW, I point at a flaw in your reasoning, and all you've got is spittle
filled hatred and insults as your rebuttal?
Did you expect anything else from the mental case?
From you? No.
news13
2015-03-24 10:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into
the nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to
explain why we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on
now is just more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock
up on flavouring for all the snowcones.
IOW, I point at a flaw in your reasoning, and all you've got is spittle
filled hatred and insults as your rebuttal?
Bullshit, you're gross stupidity has been exposed. Did you go to the
christian equivalent of a madrass? As that is the only excuse for not
remembering a whole pile of information that is generic in western
schooling. Get off the porn channel and get onto some educational
channels.
One Party System
2015-03-24 11:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into
the nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to
explain why we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on
now is just more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock
up on flavouring for all the snowcones.
IOW, I point at a flaw in your reasoning, and all you've got is spittle
filled hatred and insults as your rebuttal?
Bullshit, you're gross stupidity has been exposed. Did you go to the
christian equivalent of a madrass? As that is the only excuse for not
remembering a whole pile of information that is generic in western
schooling. Get off the porn channel and get onto some educational
channels.
Ah, marvelous. Now attack his religion. Even though it hasn't been part of
the discussion. Clearly your religion is that of Pangea.

And just BTW, it is your lkind who seems sorely lacking in what basic
science skills.
--
There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient
to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an
easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to
make themselves prominent before the public.

Booker T. Washington
One Party System
2015-03-24 04:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into the
nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to explain why
we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on now is just
more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock up
on flavouring for all the snowcones.
Ok, so I point out that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and now i'll
point out that oxygen breathing life has been around for at least 2 billion
years.

You want us to panic at a few decades of questionable data.

That would be a more a religion than science cupcake.

And stomping your foot and saying nasty things won't change that.
--
There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient
to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an
easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to
make themselves prominent before the public.

Booker T. Washington
news13
2015-03-24 11:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Party System
Post by news13
Post by Scout
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Well clearly man is responsible for turning the ice ball earth into
the nice warm place it is today.......or you're going to have to
explain why we shouldn't consider the possibility that what's going on
now is just more of the same natural process.
If you are that dumb, why would I bother.Obviously you're part of the
infestation to be wiped out. Gunner is gunna get his great cull. Stock
up on flavouring for all the snowcones.
Ok, so I point out that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and now i'll
point out that oxygen breathing life has been around for at least 2
billion years.
If you are just rooting for "oxygen breathing life", then you've nothing
to worry about, but if your hoping your descendants will still be
enjoyuing a life style similar to your current lifestyle, then that is a
whole different ball game.
Post by One Party System
You want us to panic at a few decades of questionable data.
Is leaving things until it is too late and then panicing you're usual
approach or are you a head in the sand man?

The "data" goes back centuries, if not millenia from some sources.

The bitching is that a certain committee treated the public the same way
pollies do and are paying the price for it.
Post by One Party System
That would be a more a religion than science cupcake.
Following a religion is what you seem to be doing.
BTW, Science is a process and not the results.

I've been looking at various sources of information to reach my approach.
My 2c is that people will approach this the same way they did the health
and smoking warnings, the sub-prime fiasco warning and similar events in
the past. The sheeple are consistent.
One Party System
2015-03-23 11:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by news13
Post by One Party System
Must have some effect? Well then, present your evidence. or just kill
yourself if you think man is the poroblem.
You mean the situation in NY is not a good enough example?
What situation in NY are you refering to? The corrupt IPCC?
Post by news13
Post by One Party System
The earth is 4.5 billion years old. To extrapolate trends from a few
decades of questionable data is beyond unscientific, it is quite
preposterous. People whose lives have little meaning in search of meaning.
Is that why you mae your post.
Yep, the earth might be estimated to be about 4.5 billion years old, but
how long has it been habitable for humans? That is the question.
Nice dodge. But the answer would be 100s of millions of years. We could
have lived contemparaneously with dinosaurs back to the Jurrasic and even
earlier.
Post by news13
Hint, how many years was it ice ball earth?
Not for long.
Post by news13
The quote on slashdot showed what an out of touch whacko that guy really
was. Basically "plants live in a carbon starvation situation", thus
implying that increased Co2 would be great, but what he ignored is the
research that given a richer carbon environment, our food plants look
after their own interests and become course roughage at best.
Um, increased CO2 would be of a great beneit to plants, I don';t know what
the fuck you are talking about.
Post by news13
Post by One Party System
Sad.
that you are not looking and wondering is correct.
Frankly who knows, but party-party-party doesn't seem the best approach.
Who is suggesting that, pot head?
--
There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient
to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an
easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to
make themselves prominent before the public.

Booker T. Washington
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