Discussion:
Confusion on Purchasing Gold/Silver Bullion Coins
(too old to reply)
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-10 11:36:22 UTC
Permalink
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.

-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?

-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to 3
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?

-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.

-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it all.
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.

-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested in
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over their
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.

-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.

Thank
--
Keith
-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Larry Louks
2005-05-10 13:39:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
I don't think you meant that as it is stated. I would not buy one that
didn't say ".999 fine silver" on it. I have seen several silver rounds
passed off as the genuine article when they are nothing more than
silver-plated copper. A year or so ago, I bought a one pound "silver" coin
on eBay that looks like a giant Morgan Dollar. As to its content, all it
says is "ONE POUND" on the reverse. Though the auction description indicated
that it was "solid silver", I knew better. I bought the piece for about 10
bucks. (It is a great conversation piece that I keep here on my desk.) I
have since removed a small piece of the silver plating with a file. The
piece is nothing more than plated copper.

FWIW, I've since seen several of these on eBay, with the seller trying to
make the prospective bidder think that it is worth far more than it really
is. Let the buyer beware!

Larry
'all that glitters ain't silver'
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-11 10:53:13 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 May 2005 08:39:45 -0500, "Larry Louks"
Post by Larry Louks
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
I don't think you meant that as it is stated. I would not buy one that
didn't say ".999 fine silver" on it.
Okay, as the shop had 1oz. silver rounds without such labels.
Commenrative stuff.
Post by Larry Louks
I have seen several silver rounds
passed off as the genuine article when they are nothing more than
silver-plated copper. A year or so ago, I bought a one pound "silver" coin
on eBay that looks like a giant Morgan Dollar. As to its content, all it
says is "ONE POUND" on the reverse. Though the auction description indicated
that it was "solid silver", I knew better. I bought the piece for about 10
bucks. (It is a great conversation piece that I keep here on my desk.) I
have since removed a small piece of the silver plating with a file. The
piece is nothing more than plated copper.
FWIW, I've since seen several of these on eBay, with the seller trying to
make the prospective bidder think that it is worth far more than it really
is. Let the buyer beware!
In another forum there's a link to EBay of a kilo of gold for sale
with the highest bid near 11,000 on a value of nearly $13,660 at spot
price($425). The ad seems strange for such a valuable item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3974159448
http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20993

--
Keith
Post by Larry Louks
Larry
'all that glitters ain't silver'
-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Halcitron
2005-05-10 14:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to 3
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it all.
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested in
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over their
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Buy Platinum.


:/
Brian O
2005-05-10 21:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Halcitron
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to
3
Post by Moderate Mammal
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it
all.
Post by Moderate Mammal
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested
in
Post by Moderate Mammal
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over
their
Post by Moderate Mammal
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Buy Platinum
From what I've read here in the group, platinum is not worth investing in
because not many dealers want to buy it back for what you paid for it, or
even close to what you paid for it, because the market is just not there.
If you buy from the mint, it might take a very long while before you could
break even with platinum at the dealer shop.
B
Halcitron
2005-05-14 00:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian O
Post by Halcitron
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to
3
Post by Moderate Mammal
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it
all.
Post by Moderate Mammal
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to
purchase a
Post by Brian O
Post by Halcitron
Post by Moderate Mammal
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly
interested
Post by Brian O
Post by Halcitron
in
Post by Moderate Mammal
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over
their
Post by Moderate Mammal
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both
numismatic
Post by Brian O
Post by Halcitron
Post by Moderate Mammal
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Buy Platinum
From what I've read here in the group, platinum is not worth
investing in
Post by Brian O
because not many dealers want to buy it back for what you paid for it, or
even close to what you paid for it, because the market is just not there.
If you buy from the mint, it might take a very long while before you could
break even with platinum at the dealer shop.
B
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket


Silver (Poor man's Gold)
As silver prices rose above $15.00 in September 1979, fabrication
demand began to be affected. On an annual average basis, industrial
silver use fell a relatively mild 0.9 percent to 445.1 million ounces
in 1979. Demand had held up reasonably well during the first three
quarters of the year. However, a sharp cut-back in demand in the fourth
quarter led to overall annual decreases in silver use. By some
estimates, industrial use of silver was 40 percent lower in the last
quarter of 1979 than it had been in the first quarter of that year.

When silver prices rose sharply in 1973-1974, manufacturers began
searching for ways to reduce their need to use silver. Several
substitutes for silver and methods to reduce per-unit silver use were
developed, but they were too expensive to implement as long as silver
was around $5.00 per ounce. When silver rose to $15.00 and more
however, fabricators were able to introduce these measures rapidly.
Demand also quickly declined for jewelry and sterlingware.

Investors began to sell large amounts of silver especially old coins
from the 1960s. Other sold large amounts of sterlingware and jewelry
for its silver content.

A host of political events, including the continuous U.S. hostage
crisis in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, motivated
investment demand, helping keep silver prices high and volatile through
1980. High inflation, high nominal interest rates, and negative real
interest rates further stimulated investor interest in silver and other
tangible assets. Prices dropped as low as $10.80 in March, but rose
back to $25.00 in September, as the Iran-Iraq war erupted. By the end
of 1980 silver prices had subsided once more to around $16.00.

[In 1978, I thought I saw silver at $35 per ounce, or 7x original
price.]


These high silver prices meanwhile were having a dramatic effect on the
physical silver market conditions. Total supply rose form 434.8 million
ounces in 1978 to 505.0 million ounces in 1979, and then to 584.6
million ounces in 1980. The bulk of this increase occurred in secondary
recovery. Total secondary recycling of silver doubled, from 152.0
million ounces in 1978 to 302.0 million ounces in 1980. The recovery of
silver from old coins, those holdings taken in by investors during the
1960s, increased from 21 million ounces in 1978 to 45 million ounces
the next year, and then to 94 million ounces in 1980. Refiners faced
substantial backlogs, sometimes of 6-12 months in processing these
materials.

Mine production remained almost unchanged during this time, and
actually was lower in 1980, at 264.6 million ounces, than it had been
in 1978. (A U.S. copper industry strike, along with a strike at a major
U.S. silver mine, were major factors behind the low output.) Mine
developments have long lead times, and the increases in output that
came about in response to the 1979-1980 jump in silver prices did not
appear until the mid-1980s.
http://www.silverinstitute.org/price/19791980.php
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp#silver


Gold
July 18: The price of gold reaches $300/ounce in world markets for the
first time.
December 26: The price of gold reaches an impressive $500/ounce for the
first time (see July 18).
http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/Timeline/1979/
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp


Platinum
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp#platinum


:/
bb
2005-05-15 02:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Halcitron
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket
Silver (Poor man's Gold)
As silver prices rose above $15.00 in September 1979, fabrication
demand began to be affected. On an annual average basis, industrial
silver use fell a relatively mild 0.9 percent to 445.1 million ounces
in 1979. Demand had held up reasonably well during the first three
quarters of the year. However, a sharp cut-back in demand in the fourth
quarter led to overall annual decreases in silver use. By some
estimates, industrial use of silver was 40 percent lower in the last
quarter of 1979 than it had been in the first quarter of that year.
And the Hunt brothers ran out of money before the world ran out of
silver.
Post by Halcitron
When silver prices rose sharply in 1973-1974, manufacturers began
searching for ways to reduce their need to use silver. Several
substitutes for silver and methods to reduce per-unit silver use were
developed, but they were too expensive to implement as long as silver
was around $5.00 per ounce. When silver rose to $15.00 and more
however, fabricators were able to introduce these measures rapidly.
Demand also quickly declined for jewelry and sterlingware.
Investors began to sell large amounts of silver especially old coins
from the 1960s. Other sold large amounts of sterlingware and jewelry
for its silver content.
A host of political events, including the continuous U.S. hostage
crisis in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, motivated
investment demand, helping keep silver prices high and volatile through
1980. High inflation, high nominal interest rates, and negative real
interest rates further stimulated investor interest in silver and other
tangible assets. Prices dropped as low as $10.80 in March, but rose
back to $25.00 in September, as the Iran-Iraq war erupted. By the end
of 1980 silver prices had subsided once more to around $16.00.
[In 1978, I thought I saw silver at $35 per ounce, or 7x original
price.]
These high silver prices meanwhile were having a dramatic effect on the
physical silver market conditions. Total supply rose form 434.8 million
ounces in 1978 to 505.0 million ounces in 1979, and then to 584.6
million ounces in 1980. The bulk of this increase occurred in
secondary
Post by Halcitron
recovery. Total secondary recycling of silver doubled, from 152.0
million ounces in 1978 to 302.0 million ounces in 1980. The recovery of
silver from old coins, those holdings taken in by investors during the
1960s, increased from 21 million ounces in 1978 to 45 million ounces
the next year, and then to 94 million ounces in 1980. Refiners faced
substantial backlogs, sometimes of 6-12 months in processing these
materials.
Mine production remained almost unchanged during this time, and
actually was lower in 1980, at 264.6 million ounces, than it had been
in 1978. (A U.S. copper industry strike, along with a strike at a major
U.S. silver mine, were major factors behind the low output.) Mine
developments have long lead times, and the increases in output that
came about in response to the 1979-1980 jump in silver prices did not
appear until the mid-1980s.
http://www.silverinstitute.org/price/19791980.php
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp#silver
Gold
July 18: The price of gold reaches $300/ounce in world markets for the
first time.
December 26: The price of gold reaches an impressive $500/ounce for the
first time (see July 18).
http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/Timeline/1979/
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp
Platinum
http://www.amark.com/graphs/historicalfuture.asp#platinum
:/
Day Brown
2005-05-18 03:40:31 UTC
Permalink
Kodak usta consume *50%* of the global silver supply.
then digital cameras came in, the film market has collapsed,
and silver is at 7.15$/oz.

Since ancient times, Silver has been worth 20 times copper.
Gold has been worth 20 times Silver. It is 60 times Silver
now. If TSHTF, people will forget about the current ratio,
and tend to trade at the traditional ratio.

But you mite wanna buy wine and whisky. After a crash, it
will be even more in demand than either gold or silver.
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-05-17 13:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Day Brown
Kodak usta consume *50%* of the global silver supply.
then digital cameras came in, the film market has collapsed,
and silver is at 7.15$/oz.
Since ancient times, Silver has been worth 20 times copper.
Gold has been worth 20 times Silver. It is 60 times Silver
now. If TSHTF, people will forget about the current ratio,
and tend to trade at the traditional ratio.
Why is silver so overpriced currently?

-- Words are flying out like endless rain into a paper cup, They slither
while they pass, they slip away across the universe.


--George Harrison
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-17 13:59:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 17 May 2005 22:40:31 -0500, Day Brown
Post by Day Brown
Kodak usta consume *50%* of the global silver supply.
then digital cameras came in, the film market has collapsed,
and silver is at 7.15$/oz.
Despite the reduction in silver-based phoography, the price
of silver is high. Go figure...
Post by Day Brown
Since ancient times, Silver has been worth 20 times copper.
Gold has been worth 20 times Silver. It is 60 times Silver
now. If TSHTF, people will forget about the current ratio,
and tend to trade at the traditional ratio.
I know of no reason to make that assumption. Things might
turn out as you expect, but they also might not.
Post by Day Brown
But you mite wanna buy wine and whisky. After a crash, it
will be even more in demand than either gold or silver.
Well, if you think so, that's the way for you to go. I
won't - maybe because I've never been tempted to drink up my
collection of gold and silver. ;-)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Day Brown
2005-05-19 00:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by Day Brown
Since ancient times, Silver has been worth 20 times copper.
Gold has been worth 20 times Silver. It is 60 times Silver
now. If TSHTF, people will forget about the current ratio,
and tend to trade at the traditional ratio.
I know of no reason to make that assumption. Things might
turn out as you expect, but they also might not.
Oh agreed it is a gamble. But we have no choice but to place a
bet. And one of the bets I make is that the price of precious metals
is currently under manipulation, which will cease after a crash.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by Day Brown
But you mite wanna buy wine and whisky. After a crash, it
will be even more in demand than either gold or silver.
Well, if you think so, that's the way for you to go. I
won't - maybe because I've never been tempted to drink up my
collection of gold and silver. ;-)
I understand. But in my case, I'm in negotiation with an old clan
of moonshiners, so its a no brainer. This is a buncha folks who
know how to brew, but also how to shoot. Both men and women. Yet,
like me they're only in the business for business reasons, and not
tempted to drink profits. I expect they will help me move, and if
it comes to it, they'll help me move bodies. They are all experienced
movers. :)
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-05-18 17:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Oh agreed it is a gamble. But we have no choice but to place a > bet.
And one of the bets I make is that the price of precious metals > is
currently under manipulation, which will cease after a crash.

You are betting that there will be a crash? What kind of crash? How
severe?




-- Words are flying out like endless rain into a paper cup, They slither
while they pass, they slip away across the universe.


--George Harrison
Jack
2005-05-18 07:24:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On Tue, 17 May 2005 22:40:31 -0500, Day Brown
Post by Day Brown
Kodak usta consume *50%* of the global silver supply.
then digital cameras came in, the film market has collapsed,
and silver is at 7.15$/oz.
Despite the reduction in silver-based phoography, the price
of silver is high. Go figure...
Post by Day Brown
Since ancient times, Silver has been worth 20 times copper.
Gold has been worth 20 times Silver. It is 60 times Silver
now. If TSHTF, people will forget about the current ratio,
and tend to trade at the traditional ratio.
I know of no reason to make that assumption. Things might
turn out as you expect, but they also might not.
Post by Day Brown
But you mite wanna buy wine and whisky. After a crash, it
will be even more in demand than either gold or silver.
Well, if you think so, that's the way for you to go. I
won't - maybe because I've never been tempted to drink up my
collection of gold and silver. ;-)
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Jack
2005-05-18 07:31:43 UTC
Permalink
The reason silver is high, Xrays & MRI in the medical field are used
more these days. Dr. are prescribing more MRI than ever before because
of the insurance, they are afraid of getting sued.
Day Brown
2005-05-20 05:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack
The reason silver is high, Xrays & MRI in the medical field are used
more these days. Dr. are prescribing more MRI than ever before because
of the insurance, they are afraid of getting sued.
Thats a good point. Altho it'll never drive up demand like Kodak did.
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-11 11:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Halcitron
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to
3
Post by Moderate Mammal
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it
all.
Post by Moderate Mammal
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested
in
Post by Moderate Mammal
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over
their
Post by Moderate Mammal
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Buy Platinum.
Are you teasing me? Who's gonna take Platinum over gold and silver
during a crash and hyper-inflation scenario?

--
Keith
Post by Halcitron
:/
-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
reality
2005-05-10 17:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>

If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.

The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will cost
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an intrinsic
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from someone
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a guarantee
of authenticity.
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-11 01:53:55 UTC
Permalink
On 10 May 2005 10:49:33 -0700, "reality"
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will cost
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an intrinsic
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from someone
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a guarantee
of authenticity.
No gold coin has an "intrinsic" value higher than its gold
content. It may have a higher market value, but that's a
different story.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
reality
2005-05-11 16:14:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On 10 May 2005 10:49:33 -0700, "reality"
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will cost
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an
intrinsic
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from
someone
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a
guarantee
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
of authenticity.
No gold coin has an "intrinsic" value higher than its gold
content. It may have a higher market value, but that's a
different story.
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
"Intrinsic" means "built-in numismatic value" to me in my little coin
collecting world. Which translates to your "higher market value", IMO.
But that's all of the semantics arguing that I plan to do in this
thread.
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 01:11:19 UTC
Permalink
On 11 May 2005 09:14:03 -0700, "reality"
Post by reality
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On 10 May 2005 10:49:33 -0700, "reality"
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to
1908
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will
cost
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an
intrinsic
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from
someone
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a
guarantee
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
of authenticity.
No gold coin has an "intrinsic" value higher than its gold
content. It may have a higher market value, but that's a
different story.
"Intrinsic" means "built-in numismatic value" to me in my little coin
collecting world.
In coinage, "intrinsic value" means the market value of the
commodities IN the coin. Numismatic premium is extra. A
rare $20 gold piece has LESS intrinsic value than a new Gold
Eagle.
Post by reality
Which translates to your "higher market value", IMO.
Different concepts entirely.
Post by reality
But that's all of the semantics arguing that I plan to do in this
thread.
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-05-12 11:40:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
In coinage, "intrinsic value" means the market value of the
commodities IN the coin.
Nope. It is the use value. The market value fluctuates every single day,
and could reach zero. The intrinsic value is permanent.
--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 14:30:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:43 +0000 (UTC),
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Robert Sturgeon
In coinage, "intrinsic value" means the market value of the
commodities IN the coin.
Nope. It is the use value. The market value fluctuates every single day,
and could reach zero. The intrinsic value is permanent.
Do a Google search:
coins bullion silver gold "intrinsic value"

Go to the very first result:
http://www.certifiedmint.com/glossary.htm

Click on "I"
"Intrinsic value: the value of a coin's metal content."

Go to the second result:
http://www.miningstocks.com/bullion.php

Go to about the middle of the page:
"Why Buy Gold Coins?

They Are Good for Portability and Recognition.

First, the difference between gold bullion coins and
numismatic gold coins needs to be underscored. Gold bullion
coins like the American Gold Eagle, the Canadian Maple Leaf,
and the South Africa's Krugerrand are examples of gold
bullion coins. Their value is derived entirely from their
gold content and being universally well recognized, the
value of these coins is easily recognized and verifiable. By
contrast, numismatic coins are valued on the basis of their
relative rarity and uniqueness and only a relatively few
dealers who know these markets very well can recognize the
value of these rare pieces. The value of these coins, like
those of a work of art, is subject to market factors that
may have little or nothing to do with the intrinsic value of
the gold contained within them."

Go to the third result:
http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/bulliondefinition.html

Go to about the middle of the page:
"Bullion Coins
From the above it seems that the word bullion can exclude or
include coins, and that bullion refers to metals, usually
precious metals, by weight or value rather than as items.
From this, we think it safe to conclude that a bullion coin
is one considered primarily for the value of its precious
metal content rather than for its nominal or face value or
any numismatic value.
Perhaps the meaning of bullion coin has undergone a change
with the introduction of the krugerrand as the world's first
bullion coin, with a guaranteed content of one troy ounce of
fine (pure) gold. It is clear however that earlier gold
coins, such as sovereigns, which used to circulate as money,
had metamorphosed into bullion coins with their withdrawal
from circulation, which was probably because their intrinsic
metal value had increased beyond that of their face value."

Go to the fourth result:
http://www.gold.ie/faq9.htm

Go about 2/3 down the page:
"Intrinsic - The actual metal value of the coin. In the past
the intrinsic or metal value was very close to the face
value of the coin. It had to be that way otherwise no one
would accept the coins in payment. Today we are told that
the piece of metal has a face value of #5 and we accept it
although the intrinsic value might well be only a few
pence."

Go to the fifth result:
http://www.coinsite.com/CoinSite-PF/PParticles/25carray.htm

And we read:
"By the early 1850s, the whole country was infected with
"gold fever"; in fact, the California Gold Rush had captured
the attention of the entire world. From 1849 onward, vast
amounts of the precious metal entered the channels of
commerce from the new strikes in the West. With this
unprecedented increase in supply, the price of gold on world
bullion markets fell, relative to its value in silver.
Conversely, silver became worth more in terms of gold. From
1834 to 1850, the intrinsic value of a silver dollar and a
gold dollar was almost equal. ..."

Go to the sixth main result:
http://www.answers.com/topic/gresham-s-law

And we read:
"Gresh·am's law (gre(sh'?mz)
n.

The theory holding that if two kinds of money in circulation
have the same denominational value but different intrinsic
values, the money with higher intrinsic value will be
hoarded and eventually driven out of circulation by the
money with lesser intrinsic value."

Go to the seventh main result:
http://www.nwtmintbullion.com/gold-learnmore.htm

Go about 2/3 down the page and read:
"Gold bullion coins are both enjoyable and convenient, and
popular among medium and small investors. Bullion coins are
legal tender of the issuing country, and their gold content
is guaranteed. The bullion coin bears a face value that is
primarily symbolic, the true value is based on the gold
content and the daily fluctuating price. Bullion coins have
the gold weight related intrinsic value, plus they have the
added benefit of artistic beauty and appeal.

The most popular bullion coins are the American Eagle,
Australian Kangaroo Nugget, Canadian Maple Leaf, and the
South African Krugerrand.

Numismatic gold coins are valued by rarity, original number
minted, age and condition. Most are bought and sold within
the coin collecting community, and have little to do with
the daily gold price. Numismatic gold coins are cherished
for their beauty and historical significance and the
potential investment value. This value is largely based on
perceived value. This perceived value is priced as a premium
that is over and above the intrinsic gold content."

I could go on through the subsequent results, but why
bother? You are obviously wrong and you certainly will not
admit it.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-05-12 17:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:43 +0000 (UTC),
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Robert Sturgeon
In coinage, "intrinsic value" means the market value of the
commodities IN the coin.
Nope. It is the use value. The market value fluctuates every single day,
and could reach zero. The intrinsic value is permanent.
coins bullion silver gold "intrinsic value"
http://www.certifiedmint.com/glossary.htm
Click on "I"
"Intrinsic value: the value of a coin's metal content."
That doesn't help at all. You say market value, I say use value, and
this definition doesn't differentiate between the two.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
those of a work of art, is subject to market factors that
may have little or nothing to do with the intrinsic value of
the gold contained within them."
How does this differentiate between market value and use value? How does
it help you?
Post by Robert Sturgeon
From this, we think it safe to conclude that a bullion coin
is one considered primarily for the value of its precious
metal content rather than for its nominal or face value or
any numismatic value.
How dies this support your position that "Intrinsic" means "market" and
not "use"?
Post by Robert Sturgeon
"Intrinsic - The actual metal value of the coin. In the past
the intrinsic or metal value was very close to the face
value of the coin. It had to be that way otherwise no one
would accept the coins in payment. Today we are told that
the piece of metal has a face value of #5 and we accept it
although the intrinsic value might well be only a few
pence."
"Metal Value" They say "Intrinsic" value is "metal" value. Not too
helpful, if you want intrinsic to mean market.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Conversely, silver became worth more in terms of gold. From
1834 to 1850, the intrinsic value of a silver dollar and a
gold dollar was almost equal. ..."
This helps your contention. But it points out that specie-based money can
fall in value. Can it fall to close to zero? Is it truly "worth" only
what people say it is? Is it subject to the whims of the market?

The response to these questions is generally, "No, it has intrinsic
value". That answer is nonsense if intrinsic value is nothing more than a
fluctuating market value.

Paper money is worthless, while gold has intrinsic value, it is said. But
you contend that this type of value, intrinsic value, is subject to the
whims of a fickle market? It is NOT an immutable property of the thing
itself?
Post by Robert Sturgeon
The theory holding that if two kinds of money in circulation
have the same denominational value but different intrinsic
values, the money with higher intrinsic value will be
hoarded and eventually driven out of circulation by the
money with lesser intrinsic value."
This doesn't help us to decide whether "intrinsic" means "market", as you
contend, or "use", as I contend. Either adjective could be substituted and
the passage would ake sense.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
"Gold bullion coins are both enjoyable and convenient, and
popular among medium and small investors. Bullion coins are
legal tender of the issuing country, and their gold content
is guaranteed. The bullion coin bears a face value that is
primarily symbolic, the true value is based on the gold
content and the daily fluctuating price. Bullion coins have
the gold weight related intrinsic value, plus they have the
added benefit of artistic beauty and appeal.
This supports your position.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
potential investment value. This value is largely based on
perceived value. This perceived value is priced as a premium
that is over and above the intrinsic gold content."
Note that they do not use intrinsic in the way it was used previously, as
an adjective in front of value. And if you use your definition, that
"intrinsic value" means the fluctuating market price, IOW, a perceived
value based upon the external factors of supply and demand, then their
distinction (between perceived value and gold value) makes little
sense.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
I could go on through the subsequent results, but why
bother? You are obviously wrong and you certainly will not
admit it.
That's pretty nasty. I said a couple of times that some of these passages
gave support for your position. Not all of them, which makes me wonder,
but some of them.

This makes me curious as to what intrinsic really means when applied to
coins.
--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
Day Brown
2005-05-13 19:43:05 UTC
Permalink
My sorghum is up. I intend to ferment the juice, distill it, and
make rum. Few men think they can judge the purity of gold or silver,
but most men think they can judge the quality of rum.

Remember the Whisky Rebellion? In chaotic times, rum will always be
more tradeable than gold or silver. Its much easier to make change
with as well.

I expect about 70 gallons/acre of rum from a sorghum field. That's
enough to fuel the tractor to grow everything else I need to eat and
feed the livestock as well.

Beer will be very marketable as well, and furthermore, nobody burns
down a distillery or hassles the brewmeister. Bandits mite show up to
steal all your gold and silver, but they aint gonna run off with a vat
of beer. And if they get drunk enough, you can disarm them.
Antipodean Bucket Farmer
2005-05-13 03:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Day Brown
My sorghum is up. I intend to ferment the juice, distill it, and
make rum. Few men think they can judge the purity of gold or silver,
but most men think they can judge the quality of rum.
Some pretentious folks (both men and women) will
falsely insist that they can judge the quality of
gold/silver/jewelry/coins/etc, just to brag about their
alleged personal knowledge and cool-ness.
Post by Day Brown
Remember the Whisky Rebellion? In chaotic times, rum will always be
more tradeable than gold or silver. Its much easier to make change
with as well.
Didn't the Whisky Rebellion involve tax issues?
Post by Day Brown
I expect about 70 gallons/acre of rum from a sorghum field. That's
enough to fuel the tractor to grow everything else I need to eat and
feed the livestock as well.
That sounds good good. Do you view alcohol fuel as
being more efficient than biodeisel?
Post by Day Brown
Beer will be very marketable as well, and furthermore, nobody burns
down a distillery or hassles the brewmeister.
Sure they do. There are plenty of folks with an
attitude of, "If I can't have it, then neither can
you." So they will destroy other people's property and
resources, just to take revenge for the "unfair"
discrepancy. This attitude is especially popular with
deadbeats who reuse to work for what they want, and who
ASSume that you "must" have some "unfair"/unearned
advantage in getting more resources.

This is common in generally prosperous times, and seems
likely to be worse in a crisis. The neighbour who
resents you now, may become overtly aggressive when
they think that they can get away with it.

An example would be the 1992 riots in Los Angeles,
where long-term-resentful blacks targeted liquor stores
and other businesses owned by Asians.
Post by Day Brown
Bandits mite show up to steal all your gold and silver, but
they aint gonna run off with a vat of beer. And if they get
drunk enough, you can disarm them.
They would steal anything that they could move,
including booze in bottles or kegs.

This is one of a few reasons why the whole idea of
crisis/collapse-time bartering makes me nervous. Too
much like going around wearing a t-shirt that says, "I
have money and supplies - Please Rob Me." Most folks
will have very little of their own
resources/preps/work-skillz/work-willingness, etc. So
they won't be able to conduct bartering on an equal,
respectful level.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-13 14:25:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:22:54 -0700, Antipodean Bucket Farmer
<***@THAT-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:

(snips)
Post by Antipodean Bucket Farmer
Post by Day Brown
Bandits mite show up to steal all your gold and silver, but
they aint gonna run off with a vat of beer. And if they get
drunk enough, you can disarm them.
They would steal anything that they could move,
including booze in bottles or kegs.
This is one of a few reasons why the whole idea of
crisis/collapse-time bartering makes me nervous. Too
much like going around wearing a t-shirt that says, "I
have money and supplies - Please Rob Me." Most folks
will have very little of their own
resources/preps/work-skillz/work-willingness, etc. So
they won't be able to conduct bartering on an equal,
respectful level.
You should consider dividing a SHTF situation into at least
two time periods: the period of chaos, and the period of
(relative) calm that might come after the chaos. During the
chaos, trade would be very risky. You would need to be
prepared to do it only with those you already trust or while
under armed protection. After the chaos, trading would be a
more reasonable and safer proposition.

Gold and silver would be much more "tradeable" than
alcoholic beverages. Those who imagine that whiskey, or .22
cartridges, or rolls of toilet paper would be more useful in
trade than gold or silver are engaging in wishful thinking -
perhaps because they don't have any gold or silver and are
hoping that their decision not to have any will turn out to
be a good one. In doing so, they are ignoring thousands of
years of human history. I'm (almost) glad they are, because
there will be more goods for those who DO have a little gold
or silver to buy. The more people who make that mistake,
the more goods will be available, keeping prices low. On
the other hand, if more people have gold or silver, a
functioning economy will reappear sooner, making life easier
and safer - there being fewer people left to convince that
trade is more efficient using some form of money instead of
bartering for everything.

People who had hoped that their stashes of toilet paper and
.22 cartridges would be fonts of great wealth and power
might be a little dangerous until they get over their
disappointment.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Day Brown
2005-05-15 01:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Antipodean Bucket Farmer
Didn't the Whisky Rebellion involve tax issues?
Not only that. In chaotic times, alcholic beverages were a common
trade item. It was gonzo easier to take a keg of whisky to town than
a ton of corn. And in the hilly terrain, Washington, experienced as
he was, had a very close call dealing with it. Flatlander federal
agents now would be much easier targets in the dense Ozark woods. In
the "the Art of War" by Clauswitz, he mentions steep wooded terrain,
and his advice was... to go around it.
Post by Antipodean Bucket Farmer
Post by Day Brown
I expect about 70 gallons/acre of rum from a sorghum field. That's
enough to fuel the tractor to grow everything else I need to eat and
feed the livestock as well.
That sounds good good. Do you view alcohol fuel as
being more efficient than biodeisel?
From Sorghum anyway. It tolerates poor soil and drought better than
corn. Maybe if you had the complex equipment you could do biodeisel,
but you can cook sorghum beer in a vat on a wood fire, and easily
collect the vapors for the fuel.
Post by Antipodean Bucket Farmer
Post by Day Brown
Beer will be very marketable as well, and furthermore, nobody burns
down a distillery or hassles the brewmeister.
Sure they do. There are plenty of folks with an
attitude of, "If I can't have it, then neither can
you." So they will destroy other people's property and
resources, just to take revenge for the "unfair"
discrepancy. This attitude is especially popular with
deadbeats who reuse to work for what they want, and who
ASSume that you "must" have some "unfair"/unearned
advantage in getting more resources.
This is common in generally prosperous times, and seems
likely to be worse in a crisis. The neighbour who
resents you now, may become overtly aggressive when
they think that they can get away with it.
An example would be the 1992 riots in Los Angeles,
where long-term-resentful blacks targeted liquor stores
and other businesses owned by Asians.
Agreed there will be lotsa dudes too crazy to deal with. We have
guns on that account, and an obscure location. We aint gonna be
out there running around, but using our time to harden our place
while the initial chaos spreads and the bandits are busy with the
easy targets.
Post by Antipodean Bucket Farmer
This is one of a few reasons why the whole idea of
crisis/collapse-time bartering makes me nervous. Too
much like going around wearing a t-shirt that says, "I
have money and supplies - Please Rob Me." Most folks
will have very little of their own
resources/preps/work-skillz/work-willingness, etc. So
they won't be able to conduct bartering on an equal,
respectful level.
Well, its gonna vary a lot depending on what time of year the
crisis comes (winter keeps folks in) and what kind of culture
is in your region. You dont havta drive far in the Ozarks to
see the rebel flag in the front yard of the gun nuts. Some of
them will no doubt leave to join in the looting. Some will be
setting up roadblocks to loot the assets of anyone trying to
come up here. And some of us will be hunkered down in places
waiting for them to run out of ammo.

There's a lotta drunken rednecks strung out on crank who will
be in withdrawl, violent, paranoid, and a danger to anyone who
is with them. The woods will be full of strung out snipers with
itchy trigger fingers. You either need to get where you need to
go before the SHTF, or find someplace else besides the woods to
go to. We have dogs who were born and bred here who know their
way around these woods, and will tell us if they sense someone
they dont know running around in it.

None of this is a sure thing by any means. but its the best we
can come up with.
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 23:41:35 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 May 2005 17:46:53 +0000 (UTC),
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:40:43 +0000 (UTC),
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Robert Sturgeon
In coinage, "intrinsic value" means the market value of the
commodities IN the coin.
Nope. It is the use value. The market value fluctuates every single day,
and could reach zero. The intrinsic value is permanent.
coins bullion silver gold "intrinsic value"
http://www.certifiedmint.com/glossary.htm
Click on "I"
"Intrinsic value: the value of a coin's metal content."
That doesn't help at all. You say market value, I say use value, and
this definition doesn't differentiate between the two.
PLONK

(rest of Eswired's weasling, snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Outdoors is my Nmae
2005-05-13 23:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by reality
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On 10 May 2005 10:49:33 -0700, "reality"
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to
1908
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will
cost
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an
intrinsic
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from
someone
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a
guarantee
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by reality
of authenticity.
No gold coin has an "intrinsic" value higher than its gold
content. It may have a higher market value, but that's a
different story.
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
"Intrinsic" means "built-in numismatic value" to me in my little coin
collecting world. Which translates to your "higher market value", IMO.
But that's all of the semantics arguing that I plan to do in this
thread.
Dr. K.
2005-05-12 14:18:21 UTC
Permalink
How do you get to be a mint distributor?
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-11 11:20:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will cost
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an intrinsic
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from someone
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a guarantee
of authenticity.
Even though it's more than 2x spot price, it does have both properties
of strict metal and numismatic values.

--
Keith

-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-05-11 14:15:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
Even though it's more than 2x spot price, it does have both properties
of strict metal and numismatic values.
You claim that common date, circulated coins have numismatic value? How
so?
--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
reality
2005-05-11 16:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
Even though it's more than 2x spot price, it does have both
properties
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by Moderate Mammal
of strict metal and numismatic values.
You claim that common date, circulated coins have numismatic value?
How
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
so?
Ever heard of the greysheet?
reality
2005-05-11 16:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
<snip>
If you're only interested in the metal, buy common circulated $5.00
Liberty Head (with motto) gold coins. The ones from the 1880s to 1908
are generally readily available.
The $5 gold coins have slightly less than 1/4 oz. of gold and will cost
you around $130 each. Plus they are cool looking and have an
intrinsic
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
value above the spot gold price. Just make sure you buy from
someone
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
who knows a real one from a fake, and will provide you with a
guarantee
Post by Moderate Mammal
Post by reality
of authenticity.
Even though it's more than 2x spot price, it does have both
properties
Post by Moderate Mammal
of strict metal and numismatic values.
--
Keith
Actually there is about .24 oz. of gold in the coin, so melt at $427
spot is $103.
Wes Chormicle
2005-05-10 23:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Right now I have a ton of silver. I'll sell you a $1000 bag of dimes for
$4525 + $20 S&H

Wes
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to 3
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it all.
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested in
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over their
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Thank
--
Keith
-------------------------------------
Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index
_____
"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____
"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature
----------
To send mail: remove hutch
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
reality
2005-05-11 00:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wes Chormicle
Right now I have a ton of silver. I'll sell you a $1000 bag of dimes for
$4525 + $20 S&H
Wes
"LQQK Unsearched Estate Lot LQQK", I presume? ;)
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-11 11:14:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:48:40 GMT, "Wes Chormicle"
Post by Wes Chormicle
Right now I have a ton of silver. I'll sell you a $1000 bag of dimes for
$4525 + $20 S&H
I'm not willing to make that much of a purchase all at once. But
thanks anyway.

--
Keith
Post by Wes Chormicle
Wes
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to 3
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it all.
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested in
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over their
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Thank
--
Keith
-------------------------------------
Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index
_____
"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____
"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature
----------
To send mail: remove hutch
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Moderate Mammal
2005-05-11 10:44:20 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:36:22 GMT, Moderate Mammal
<***@verizon.hutch.net> wrote:

<snipped>
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Thanks
Just a note. I posed some questions to a bullion forum with some
interesting answers.

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20966

--
Keith

-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Bob Peterson
2005-05-11 16:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:36:22 GMT, Moderate Mammal
<snipped>
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Thanks
Just a note. I posed some questions to a bullion forum with some
interesting answers.
http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=20966
I took a look at this website, and while it may provide a certain amount of
good infomration., the political bent amkes me suspicious of the advice they
give.
Post by Moderate Mammal
--
Keith
-------------------------------------
Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index
_____
"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____
"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature
----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Bunn E. Rabbit
2005-05-11 12:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Here's my collection so far! <vigorous hopping>

http://www.goldworld.net/

--
Bunn E. Rabbit
-------------------------------------

Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index


_____

"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____

"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature

----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Bob Johnson
2005-05-11 14:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bunn E. Rabbit
Here's my collection so far! <vigorous hopping>
http://www.goldworld.net/
That used to be a very nice gold site, I'm sorry to see
it is no longer active, but the photo is real pretty !

Best Regards,
Bob Johnson
http://www.goldsheetlinks.com
http://www.coinsheetlinks.com
Bob Peterson
2005-05-11 15:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moderate Mammal
I'm having a bit of confusion on buying gold and silver, mainly of
coin bullion from local shops. Therefore, I have some questions.
-Buying silver rounds. Does is make much difference if one is
purchased minus the '.999 troy ounce' engraving on the coin?
I would not buy them without some marking indicating the weight and
fineness. It's much easier to resell if they are clearly labeled what they
are. On the other hand, if you like it, buy it.
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Finding a coin dealer that is interested in doing business. Went to 3
shops and told them I'm interested in spending about $100-200 week on
purchasing silver and gold rounds as well as some 90% pre-1965
quarters and dimes. None seemed too thrilled about my business. Plus
the aura, with all due respect, of sleaze. Kinda like a highway auto
dealer. And the insult of the inability of selling 90% coins by the
ounce. "We don't sell them that way". No? If the coins are sold for
there silver content only, why not?
They don't typically sell silver coins by the ounce because they are not
minted that way. typically, silver coins are not minted in increments of
one ounce.
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Pricing. What's a fair price for both the dealer and myself
concerning silver rounds over spot? Gold rounds? One dealer stated
that all his gold rounds are $20 over spot no matter what coin
fraction. I understand the logic of minting as presented but it seems
a bit silly to pay $20 over spot for 1/10 of an oz of gold. Say, at
$425 oz a coin with $42.50 spot gold costs $62.50.
You will find that supply and demnad has a lot to do with the price of 1/10
gold coins. Some are less common than others and will be priced higher than
others.
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Purchases other than coin shops. Most Internet site offers are
negated by shipping, handling and insurance. For example, today I
bought 10 Englehard Silver rounds from a local shop at $1 over
spot(current price of market Silver).
A website will offer the same or other notable brands at $.50 over
spot. But charge $20 for shipping. And on Ebay one can find small
amounts for spot price but again shipping negates the logic of it all.
And the inherent risk of E-bay purchases. I'm unwilling to purchase a
$1000 at a time.
You can often find deals on the internet but as you have noted the shipping
costs often make this a problem. if you want to buy larger quantities of
silver coins, you may well find the best prices on line, even including
shipping fees.
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Numismatics(The art and science of a coins' value other than mineral
content) Although the more I educate myself on coins and the art of
collecting seems like a hell of a lot of fun; I'm mainly interested in
coins as an alternative investment especially since the oligarchy is
bent on sending us to hell with their sleaze economics, illegal
immigration, outsourcing and slave labor model. OTOH, is there some
value in combining both methodologies of coin investing? A simple
example would be buying a government minted Silver round such as the
American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf...which carry a premium over their
spot mineral content. Or other coins that may have both numismatic
value along with the metal. I don't of course want to have to sell a
rare coin just for its silver content.
Bullion is not an investment, regardless of your political bent. It is a
speculation. Look at the history of bullion prices over the last 50 years
and you will see there is a LOT of flucuation in the prices. There is also
a lot of market interference by various groups to either keep the price up
or down, depending on their intentions at the time.
Post by Moderate Mammal
-Okay, let's cut to the chase besides my whining. What is a
reasonable offer to a local coin dealer for silver/gold rounds,
generic, name brand and government issued that is both fair for the
dealer and myself. And 90% silver coins, quarter and dimes.
Talk to your local dealer about what you want to do and make some kind of
arrangment with him. For the small quantities you are talking about, he is
probably your best choice. Forget the vitiolic politics in dealing with
your coin guy. It's not important and it's counterproductuve.
Post by Moderate Mammal
Thank
--
Keith
-------------------------------------
Fed up with illegal immigration?
_____
http://idexer.com
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?117
http://www.saveourstate.org
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frostyA.htm
http://www.americanpatrol.com/LINKS/LINKS.html
http://www.vdare.com/links.htm
http://www.stoptheinvasion.com/links/
http://fairus.org/
http://numbersusa.com/index
_____
"Cosmic upheaval is not so moving as a little child pondering the death
of a sparrow in the corner of a barn." -Anouk Aimee, French Actor
_____
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny", Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon
_____
"I wear no Burka." - Mother Nature
----------
To send mail: remove hutch
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 01:16:34 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:56:41 GMT, "Bob Peterson"
<***@insightbb.com> wrote:

(snips)
Post by Bob Peterson
Bullion is not an investment, regardless of your political bent.
Of course it is.
Post by Bob Peterson
It is a
speculation. Look at the history of bullion prices over the last 50 years
and you will see there is a LOT of flucuation in the prices.
As there have been in stock prices, real estate prices, etc.

All investments are speculative, to some extent.
Post by Bob Peterson
There is also
a lot of market interference by various groups to either keep the price up
or down, depending on their intentions at the time.
See above.

(rest snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Jonathan_ATC
2005-05-12 12:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Peterson
They don't typically sell silver coins by the ounce because they are not
minted that way. typically, silver coins are not minted in increments of
one ounce.
I am confused. SAE's are minted as an ounce. Commem dollars are an ounce.
Are you talking about past minting of dimes, quarters and half dollars?
They don't mint them anymore, correct?
--
Jonathan
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 14:34:32 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:49:44 GMT, "Jonathan_ATC"
Post by Jonathan_ATC
Post by Bob Peterson
They don't typically sell silver coins by the ounce because they are not
minted that way. typically, silver coins are not minted in increments of
one ounce.
I am confused. SAE's are minted as an ounce. Commem dollars are an ounce.
If by "Commem dollars" you mean the silver dollars minted by
the U.S., they were about .78 oz.
Post by Jonathan_ATC
Are you talking about past minting of dimes, quarters and half dollars?
They don't mint them anymore, correct?
Not in 90% silver. Those are called "junk silver." A
dollar's worth of face value contains .72 oz. of silver.
IMHO, they are an excellent source of silver bullion coins.
I especially like the half dollars.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Talkin Horse
2005-05-11 23:35:11 UTC
Permalink
FWIW, I'd rather be holding pre-'65 circulated US silver and modern gold
bullion Eagles from the US mint, since these are low-premium items and very
liquid. Why buy anything other than a product of the US mint, which is a
known quantity to all? (The pre-'33 US gold coins are neat, but there's a
high premium to be paid, plus greater danger of counterfeits.)

I wouldn't bet too heavily on a currency collapse. I wouldn't be surprised
to see a dollar crisis, but I imagine there's more profit to be had in
careful global investing than there is to holding bullion. If the dollar
falls, the Euro (or something) will rise.
Robert Sturgeon
2005-05-12 01:18:56 UTC
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On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:35:11 GMT, "Talkin Horse"
Post by Talkin Horse
FWIW, I'd rather be holding pre-'65 circulated US silver and modern gold
bullion Eagles from the US mint, since these are low-premium items and very
liquid. Why buy anything other than a product of the US mint, which is a
known quantity to all? (The pre-'33 US gold coins are neat, but there's a
high premium to be paid, plus greater danger of counterfeits.)
Agreed.
Post by Talkin Horse
I wouldn't bet too heavily on a currency collapse.
I wouldn't either. But such does occasionally happen.
Post by Talkin Horse
I wouldn't be surprised
to see a dollar crisis, but I imagine there's more profit to be had in
careful global investing than there is to holding bullion. If the dollar
falls, the Euro (or something) will rise.
Maybe the Euro or something would rise more than bullion.
Maybe not.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
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